196 



practice request from private companies there. They are trying to 

 reduce the cumulative effects so that they can get back in national 

 forest timbers that is at public expense. But it is difficult until we 

 have direct enforcement to get cooperation from private timbers be- 

 cause it is so lucrative just to go in there and get it. 

 That is what is going on in California right now. We missed a 



Eublic initiative process to reform California forest practices rules 

 y 52 to 48, and I thought that the private timber industry would 

 take that as a bellwether, change their forest practice and come to 

 the table and discuss the rules that they can live with, but they 

 are liquidating. Dr. Ice and I have a fundamental difference here. 

 South Fork Mountain, we have studies after the 1964 flood, it said 

 cut out on the ridges. And instead we have massive clear-cuts on 



Erivate lands on soils that are like ice cream. How do you get the 

 eneficial use for a creek that is underground because of a 1964 

 sediment plug, from 30 percent of the basin being logged? And 

 today it is 80 to 90 percent logged. And the land was provided to 

 the private forestry and liquidated. 



Mr. DeFazio. All right. 



I appreciate the testimony and, you know, this will be, hopefully, 

 a part of the comprehensive legislation that will, forever, and with 

 great wisdom, divide the baby or make the baby whole, but make 

 everybody happy in the Northwest. I don't know. 



Let us tune in later and we will be talking to you all. 



Thanks very much. 



[Whereupon, at 3:08 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 



