21 



tiles here and there, the power of the ecosystem to restore itself is 

 really amazing if we get there in time, and the enthusiasm of land- 

 owners when they see the effect of this and of local people is un- 

 matched. 



Mr. Hamburg. Thank you, very much. 



Mr. Chairman, I have a few other questions but since my time 

 is up, I would be glad to yield back to you. 



Mr. HOCHBRUECKNER. That is fine. Why don't you continue. I 

 have one final question for Ms. Beattie when you finish, so please 

 continue. 



Mr. Hamburg. If we could get your comments on this user fees 

 issue. Of course, this is one of the toughest sells in this day and 

 age in the Federal Government, anything that is going to authorize 

 the appropriation of funds. And although I characterized it as pen- 

 nies, essentially millions of dollars, and every million is very dif- 

 ficult to find today, and while I am sure the people in this room 

 at least probably generally agree that this is a laudable goal to 

 move forward with this legislation, what are your ideas about user 

 fees which would be used to support the trust fund that H.R. 4481 

 calls for? 



.Ms. Beattie. Congressman, I don't have any technical proposals 

 for you. I would look forward to working with you on them and 

 with the task force. 



My own sense is that this is a fairly technical question of user 

 fees and how they would be applied. But a very acceptable premise. 



The Fish and Wildlife Service administers almost $500 million in 

 user fees from anglers and hunters right now. Now, I do not mean 

 to equate those with people who degrade water systems, but only 

 to show that that is a principle that has been used in the past with 

 great success. Those moneys are used for the restoration of fish and 

 wildlife habitat. So it is a principle that is accepted. It has been 

 used. It generates a lot of money, and I think it is an excellent way 

 to go. 



And by the way, the comparison I make when you say relatively 

 pennies, a good comparison to make, I think, is to the amount of 

 money that we are spending on regulatory ecosystem protection. 

 The principle that everything runs downhill is one that is very ap- 

 plicable to what we are talking about here today. Our aquatic 

 ecosystems indicate the success of all those efforts we are making 

 uphill and upstream to protect our environment. And when you 

 look at the amount of money we are investing, not to invest a little 

 more to protect these aquatic ecosystems does not seem like good 

 banking. 



So I think the "user pays" principle is the one to pursue. I do not 

 at the moment have a detailed proposal for you, but I look forward 

 to working with you on it. 



Mr. Hamburg. Thank you. We look forward to working with you. 



If I could turn to Mr. Mattole for a second here. Freeman, I hope 

 that does not— if you do not want that to stick, it should not. I 

 don't know if it will. 



Mr. House. Never get away with it at home. 



Mr. Hamburg. I want to mine your expertise a little more. In 

 terms of priorities for developing the strategy, are there some addi- 

 tional points that you would like to recommend for inclusion that 



