OCEANOGRAPHY 53 



interesting people and I am not siu^e that legislation is really required 

 now. 



Mr. Pelly. Well, I feel that in the infancy of this development, 

 we do have a crusading spirit. 



I do agree that we have some good men and I include the Secretary 

 and yourself, but I am thinking in terms now of the long-range de- 

 velopment, and it seems to me that now is the time to set the guide- 

 lines and establish a policy which will coordinate the program maybe 

 on a permanent basis better than it would be under the present more 

 or less flexible arrangement which probably works today but which 

 might not work tomorrow. 



Admiral Hayward. Mr. Pelly, I feel that by the mere fact that we 

 are up here talking on this subject, we have come a long way. Four 

 years ago, this would not have happened. 



I think if the committee continues each year to go into the details 

 of the program such as you are doing that you may come to the con- 

 clusion that you do need legislation. jMy personal opinion today, and 

 it is my own opinion on it, is that we do not need it at the moment. 



The committee, as I say, provides part of the spark to have the 

 good people we have gotten. 



Mr. Miller and the rest of you have helped this. I do not think 

 that you need legislation now. 



Mr. Pelly. I have the impression that some of the scientists in 

 various fields feel that we are not making enough progress. They are 

 dissatisfied and it is going to be necessary to come up with legislation 

 in order to get the results that they would like to see. 



Admiral Hayward. But, Mr. Pelly, we have a lot of people — and 

 I am sure the Secretary will back me on this — that live in their own 

 particular, let me say, discipline and do not have to balance the over- 

 all program. You may then wind up with legislation for not only 

 oceanography but meteorology. There is no end to this, and at the 

 moment there is a lot of confusion in the picture, too, in the fisheries 

 side, the minerals side, a lot of the things, and just the pure research 

 side, so that I do not think that you could really make a piece of 

 legislation that would not require some changing and it might confuse 

 the issue more than anything. 



I do not agi-ee that they need it to get the spark behind it because 

 everybody that has been mixed up in it, Dr. Kistiakowsky, Dr. Wake- 

 lin, we have come a long way, as I say, in 4 years. Just look back 4 

 years and you will see it. 



I know Mr. Miller knows this. 



Mr. Pelly. Thank you. 



Mr. Miller. I know that this connnittee, beginning at the beginning 

 of this session, knew nothing about oceanogi-aphy. I do not know 

 \yhether we know anything about it now. I think we are getting a 

 liberal education. 



Mr. Lennon, any questions? 



Mr. Lenxon. I was interested in the comment as to the opposition 

 of those in tlie Navy which you have been able to overcome in the 

 last 3 years. Why would anybody in Navy be opposed to the scien- 

 tific study of the oceans? That is an oversimplified question. 



Admiral PIayward. No, sir. For the same reason that the scien- 

 tists come to Mr, Pelly to pass legislation on oceanography. The 



