90 OCEANOGRAPHY 



Mr. Cloud. There are people here who know more about it than I 

 do. Perhaps Gordon Lill will respond to that. I think probably, 

 both ONR and XSF are putting money in it. 



Mr. Oliver. I mention that to show the interest of just one member 

 in this project. Even though a lot of people are inclined to ridicule 

 it, I think that it is basic that that project be carried through. 



Mr. Miller. Mr. Flynn ? 



Mr. Flynn. I have no questions. 



Mr. Miller. Mr. Drewry ^ 



Mr. Drewry. Dr. Cloud, I notice that you feel that you ought to 

 have an addition to your existing authorization and, as I understood 

 that, it was to enable you to go beyond the immediate closeby waters. 

 I also notice that you have been active up in the Arctic Basin and the 

 Bahama Banks. How did you manage that? 



Mr. Cloud. Well, we operate to the Bahama Banks from Miami. 

 The Arctic Basin work was some special arrangement with the Air 

 Force whereby our men were stationed on one of those floating ice 

 islands. It was off the coast of Alaska essentially, you might say, in 

 the territorial waters of Alaska drifting along the Canadian Archi- 

 pelago. We do have cooperative aiTangements with agencies through- 

 out the Government and at various times our personnel will be trans- 

 ferred to one of these agencies to perfonn a job outside of the terri- 

 torial limits of the United States but we are not authorized in our 

 own legislation to undertake this independently. 



Mr. Drewry. Your problem, then, is somewhat similar to that of 

 the Coast and Geodetic Sui-vey, which was that they could partici- 

 pate in these programs but it took a little arranging to make it work 

 out. 



Mr. CLout). Yes, that is correct. 



Mr. Dreavry. I noticed that you mentioned fiscal 1960 and 1061 and 

 also that you had issued a number of reports over the past 10 years. 



In the 10-year period, was there anything like the amount of money 

 available that you have had since fiscal 1960 ? 



Mr. Cloud. Yes, I think so. Actually, you know it is quite a prob- 

 lem to identify all of the things we do in oceanography. Frequently 

 they are done for other pui-poses but tliey have an oceanographic 

 bearing. We have always had a happy relation with the scientifiG 

 community in general so that we are able to get them to do things for 

 us and we play ball with one another and make our funds for research 

 in this area go a long way. 



I do not think that the amount of money that we have spent on 

 oceanography anything like represents the cost of the actual opera- 

 tion in research. 



Mr. Drewry. Of course, I tliink that it is important to realize that 

 money is not everything in these respects. 



That is all I have. 



Mr. Miller. I take it, then. Doctor, from your answers to some of 

 these questions, that crash programs in tlie field of science, this field 

 or anj'thing else are not tlie things that seiTe science the best. 



Mr. Cloud. One of the worst things that can happen to basic sci- 

 ence is to have a crash program. 



Mr. Miller. I just wanted to get that into the record. 



