OCEANOGRAPHY 115 



wliich I believe you felt and certainly we did, was : How do we make 

 anythino; like a iO-year program stick? Appropriations are not han- 

 dled on a long-term basis. Congresses come and go every 2 years. 

 Presidential terms run every 4 years. In seeking a way to find some 

 base to give the thing a hard core that would carry on on anything 

 like a 10-year program, we tried what is represented by this bill as 

 being something that, established by statute, it would have to stay 

 in being. By putting it on the oceanography survey aspect of it, it 

 would hit the real hard core, the initial effort that must be made. 



By reporting to Congi^ess under statute, the dangers of loss of in- 

 terest on the executive side or just a change of viewpoint due to a 

 change in the executive would be avoided. 



I believe you mentioned here that it was your personal opinion that 

 representation of the outside organizations would be desirable on any 

 survey coordinating committee. Could not that be done effectively 

 through means that are already in operation, despite the fact that 

 there were a certain statutorily established oceanographic survey com- 

 mittee ? 



Dr. ScHAEFER. It could, sir, but there again you get into this same 

 question that although authority already exists, when it is spelled out, 

 it is sometimes more desirable than just having an understanding. Mr. 

 Pelly's bill, which is similar to the Magnuson bill in the Senate, for 

 example, provides that, with respect to this, they essentially are pro- 

 posing to put this function and a number of other functions in a divi- 

 sion of the National Science Foundation. 



In the case of that bill, it specifically provides that the board of this 

 new division would include, in addition to representatives of the Gov- 

 ernment agencies, several representatives from nongovernmental sci- 

 entific institutions. 



Rising to the chairman's challenge to quit being a thinker and be a 

 politician for a moment — admitting I am in a field about which I know 

 nothing — one thing I would like to say is that this business of au- 

 thorization already existing comes up quite often. I think, as a matter 

 of fact, even though authority already exists, when the Congress 

 passes a bill making the authority again, it is sometimes much more 

 effective than simply recognizing that the authority exists. 



Mr. Drewry. I think that is what we are both aiming for. 



Dr. SciiAEFER. With respect to this particular bill, H.R. 10412, es- 

 tablisliing a Committee on Oceanographic Surveys, I rather tend to 

 think this is taking one facet of the oceanographic problem rather 

 than the whole thing. The surveys are important, but so are the pro- 

 visions for basic research and a great many otlier things. 



I would think that if the Congi'ess is passing authorizing legislation 

 it might be desirable to do something more comprehensive along the 

 lines of the Pelly-Magnuson bill rather than one item at a time. Here 

 again I am talking about a subject in which I am by no means expert. 



Mr. Drewry. Thank you very much. 



Mr. Bauer. Thank you. Dr. Schaefer. That was a veiy good 

 statement. 



Mr. Chairman, our next witness is Dr. Joel Hedgpeth, marine biol- 

 ogist, director. Pacific Marine Station, Dillon Beach, Calif. 



