212 OCEANOGRAPHY 



Mr. CiiArMAN. Yes. We are very fortunate in having- a very able 

 leadership in our unions in California, our maritime unions, who 

 have broad views. They will fight like dogs with us about the 

 negotiation of a split in share between the fisherman and a boat- 

 owner on a vessel or the price to be paid for the product by the can- 

 ners. We have some of the liveliest fights, I tliink, of any place 

 around the country; and then again, when this is all done, we can 

 get together in another room and discuss in a veiy broadminded way 

 all of these international law things, for instance, which plague us 

 all jointly and equally, and all of these research matters which beneht 

 us all equally and jointly. 



Now, I think, sir, that that is about all 1 will bother you with tliis 

 morning. 



If I could have the privilege of giving a more coherent written 

 statement for the record, and answer any (questions there may be at 

 the present time, I would appreciate it. 



Mr. Miller. Without objection, that will be ordered. 



Mr. Bauer ^ 



Mr. Bauer. With respect to the ocean survey and the resulting data 

 center. Dr. Chapman, could you tell us how and with what accuracy 

 one of vour tuna vessels must be at a particular spot in the ocean? 



Mr, Chapman. Well, as an example, the Na.vigator Bank off the 

 coast of Colombia is, I would judge, -JOt) miles from any point of 

 land and I would judge a third of a mile across. This takes pretty 

 precise navigation to hnd that and you do not want to waste your 

 ship's time coasting around looking for it. This I only cite as an 

 example. We have banks 200 miles north and also northwest of the 

 Galapagos Islands that we go to customarily and the people head 

 out from Panama and go to that bank. It is a thousand miles away. 

 The navigational requirements are much more precise than apply to 

 the nonnal merchant marine traffic. 



Mr. Bauer. Has the classification of bathymetric data injured your 

 industiy in any fashion ? 



Mr. Chapmax. This perhaps is not the right way to exprei^s it. 

 Perhaps it would be lietter to express it in terms that had we had the 

 information which was classified, it would have strongly benefited 

 us. 



Let me give you an example of this. There is a professor at 

 Scripps Institution who is a marine geologist who has been gather- 

 ing bathymetric material for the whole of the eastern Pacific and 

 doing some excellent research on the basis of it. We found out what 

 he was doing bex:'ause he was asking our tuna skippers for informa- 

 tion on the location of their secret banks. When we found out what 

 was going on, we undertook to get all the skippers on a confidential 

 basis to release their information to this gentleman. 



As a consequence of this, we found out that he had an awful lot 

 of information also from naval records which we did not have and 

 that he had been trying to get declassified for some period of years. 



We cooperated with liim fidly in giving him all our data a.nd then 

 we coidd not even get that back because it was mixed up with classi- 

 fied data, and those of us who did not have adequate security clear- 

 ance were not permitted to see it. I happened to have it. We set 

 about getting this whole bathymetric material put together in chart 

 form. We actually provided him with money to hire a cartographer 



