EFFECTIVENESS OF THE COMMITTEE ON OCEANOGRAPHY 31 



Mr. Wakelin. For 1962 it is the same figure, sir, $134,000. 



Mr. Lennon. $134,000. And for the projected figures for 1963, 

 what is the Coast Guard's quota of this total oceanography budget? 



Mr. Wakelin. In the President's budget, it is $134,000 again, sir. 



Mr. Lennox. As against a total of $123,971,000 for the total pro- 

 gram. That is my point, Mr. Secretary. Each department and 

 agency is going to pull its own oars. It is going to project the facet 

 of this overall program that it is interested in, and it is going to push 

 that. Now concededly the ICO will try to bring it in line with the 

 total national objective, but until there is spelled out a total national 

 objective of the ICO, how are you going to bring into one central 

 agency and reconcile the jealousies, the petty jealousies that all 

 agencies have to excel] in whatever field that they are in? 



We saw what happened here several years ago in the Army, the 

 Navy, and the Air Force, and there is not a man or woman either 

 within the sound of my voice who doesn't know that if you had had 

 NASA back in 1955 or 1957, the sputnik I and II wouldn't have gone 

 up in 1957 before we had something in orbit. 



And you have got the same thing here, and you will continue to 

 have it, until you set up a central agency that the Congress can 

 bring before it and ask, "What are you doing?" And I just wanted 

 to get into that. 



I am not lecturing; I just have a very strong feeling about this, 

 that if the President is right about it in what he said, then you are 

 wrong about it, because you cannot have a goal that he has set forth 

 in this field unless } t ou have a central responsible agency that has 

 authority to veto within its discretion the budgets of the individual 

 departments that participate in this program, and say what department 

 ought to get how much, and why. 



I believe you happen to be the chairman at the moment. Let me 

 yield to my friend, Mr. Ellsworth. 



Thank you, Mr. Secretary, I feel very strongly about this, and 

 have for some time. 



Mr. Ellsworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



I would like to say, first of all, that I would like to encourage the 

 chairman to follow up on Secretary Wakelin's suggestion that we 

 invite Mr. Woodrow Jacobs, of the Data Center, to come and testify 

 before our committee. And secondly, Air. Secretary, I would like 

 to thank you for a very fine statement this morning, and a very broad 

 statement and a clear one. 



I do have a couple of questions or so that I would like to ask. 

 First of all, Mr. Secretary, I would like to ask, is every Government 

 department or agency that is conducting oceanography represented 

 in some way on the ICO? 



Mr. Wakelin. We believe this to be the case. 



Mr. Ellsworth. You believe that everyone is? Now along the 

 lines of some of the questioning that has been directed to you already, 

 I am just wondering if you have available, and if you could either 

 read to us this morning or provide for the record later, figures to 

 show the 1961 budget request, department by department and 

 agency by agency for oceanography compared to their actual 

 expenditures in the departments and agencies? 



Mr. Wakelin. For 1961. 



Mr. Ellsworth. For fiscal year 1961. 



