48 EFFECTIVENESS OF THE COMMITTEE ON OCEANOGRAPHY 



Mr. Wakelin. In that regard, I certainly consider the Bureau of 

 the Budget's responsibilities are those of trying to arrive at a total 

 figure for the whole national budget by integrating over a number of 

 national programs, one of which is oceanography. So that in this 

 regard, I could not be assured that your bill would give us any more 

 total support in the Bureau of the Budget than the current mechanism 

 of going through the ICO and the Federal Council, and working closely 

 with the Bureau of the Budget people, as we do right now. 



Mr. Dingell. Mr. Secretary, the point I have been leading up to 

 is simply this: Wouldn't it be fair to infer that on the basis of raw 

 figures alone that ICO has had modest success, if at all, in increasing 

 activities by governmental agencies involved in the field of oceanogra- 

 phy in that field? 



Mr. Wakelin. Do you consider a factor of 5 over the last 6 years 

 as being inconsequential? 



Mr. Dingell. Let us talk in terms of the agencies other than the 

 Department of the Navy. It has been relatively lacking in success 

 with agencies outside of the Department of the Navy, and I speak 

 just in terms of last year's budget. 



Mr. Wakelin. Yes. 



Mr. Dingell. I haven't made scrutiny, but it wouldn't be unfair 

 to make that statement, would it? 



Mr. Wakelin. I think it would be unfair. That is my personal 

 opinion. 



Mr. Dingell. Can you give us an idea of what the proposed budg- 

 ets in this field were that came from the representative departments 

 to the Bureau of the Budget, so that we can make an objective com- 

 parison between what was requested, and what the various and 

 sundry departments thought was appropriate and necessary, as op- 

 posed to what the Bureau of the Budget finally let them have? 



Mr. Wakelin. I am not sure that I can give you the precise figure, 

 but thev are of the order of $138 million versus $124 million. 



Mr. Dingell. $136 million and $124 million. So that that is a 

 cut of approximately $12 million and this cut came principally out- 

 side of the Navy's budget, I am correct? It came in the various 

 civilian agencies? 



Mr. Wakelin. It came mostly outside of the Navy, right. But 

 I don't understand how your proposed bill is going to help in this 

 regard, because the budget process must consider oceanography along 

 with all the other national efforts. I am not opposed to the bill. 

 Please understand that. 



Mr. Dingell. Mr. Secretary, I am not even discussing the bill at 

 the moment. 



Mr. Secretary, I appreciate your helpfulness this morning, and your 

 very fine statement, and I want to commend you. 



Mr. Bauer has a few more questions. 



Mr. Bauer. Mr. Secretary, one last approach here. 



If you look at the oceans as an environment, you of course would 

 have to consider the atmospheric part of the environment, the part 

 having to do with the physics and chemistry of the oceans, and the 

 part having to do with the biology of the oceans. Is that not correct? 



Mr. Wakelin. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Bauer. Do you regard the oceans as important as study of 

 environmental problems and requiring coordination as water resources?' 



