64 EFFECTIVENESS OF THE COMMITTEE ON OCEANOGRAPHY 



Mr. Dingell. Substantially polluted, right? 



Mr. McKernan. Right. 



Mr. Dingell. And can also live in water which is less polluted. 



Mr. McKernan. Yes. 



Mr. Dingell. And for all intents and purposes, pollution which 

 would adversely affect the life of the shellfish would adversely affect 

 the life of a human being, would it not? 



Mr. McKernan. No, not necessarily. Not at all. I don't think 

 these are necessarily related. 



For example, hepatitis. The organism causing hepatitis, which 

 may be passed by shellfish, would have no effect on the shellfish, on 

 the species, whatsoever. 



Mr. Dingell. Now where did HEW propose to set up their two 

 laboratories? 



Mr. McKernan. One in the gulf and one in Rhode Island. 



Mr. Dingell. You are going to tell me that they have set up in 

 an area where there is absolutely pure water in Rhode Island? 



Mr. McKernan. This is my understanding, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Dingell. This is what they report to me, but I want to know, 

 is there absolutely pure water in Rhode Island, where they set up? 



Mr. McKernan. Well, Mr. Chairman, perhaps I am at fault in 

 one respect, but what we have done is in a sense take the word of 

 then- specialist in this regard, so I can't come before you and say that 

 we have tested the water in this particular locality. We do know 

 that it is very pure water. 



Mr. Dingell. As I understand, as a matter of fact, the water in 

 the coastal area up and down Rhode Island is substantially polluted, 

 is it not? 



Mr. McKernan. I would question this, Mr. Chairman, but I have 

 no personal knowledge. I think that there may well be currents — I 

 know that there are current systems along the coast which bring about 

 such flushing that there could be pure water. I don't know in this 

 particular location of personal knowledge. 



Mr. Dingell. Well, a current system which removes pollution does 

 not remove it absolutely; isn't that a fact? 



Mr. McKernan. No, not necessarily. For example, I am sure 

 you could see if you had a swift current going by any particular loca- 

 tion you might have pure water, depending upon the kind of pollu- 

 tion, whether it was continuous or intermittent pollution, and these 

 kinds of tilings. 



Now, in this particular rase, what we did was to get together our 

 technical people with their technical people, and we attempted to 

 look at the criteria that each had. Now the criteria that they pre- 

 sented to us appeared to me to make pretty good sense. 



Mr. Dingell. So the fact of the matter — I don't want to belabor 

 the point and take the time of the committee — but the simple fact of 

 the matter is this: that it is possible to put these three shellfish 

 laboratories together in one area and one facility at a substantial 

 saving to the Federal Government, is it not? 



Mr. McKernan. Physically, it is possible. Assuming the objec- 

 tives that the HEW has set out are proper objectives for their labora- 

 tory, I could not answer your question in the affirmative. 



Mr. Dingell. But as a matter of fact, though, it is possible — and 

 you are a biologist, and you understand these things quite well — 



