124 EFFECTIVENESS OF THE COMMITTEE ON OCEANOGRAPHY 



of the Department he represents to more perfectly coordinate the 

 organizations of that Department with other Departments? 



Mr. Abel. Let me see if I understand this. You are asking how a 

 person who does not have a certain authority 



Mr. Dingell. A nonpolicy person; and as I read the list of officers 

 and members and delegates of ICO and also the Coordinating Commit- 

 tee, there is not a man there, with the possible exception of Secretary 

 Wakelin, who is of policy level. 



Mr. Abel. Well, the degree of policymaking ability consistent 

 with each of the ICO member's position, is something that he would 

 be far more qualified to comment on than myself. I think that most 

 of them are bureau chiefs. 



Mr. Dingell. I am not trying to embarrass you, I assure you, and 

 I am not trying to create problems with the organizations which you 

 represent, and on which you serve, but will j^ou concede that as a mat- 

 ter of policy within the Government, effective coordination can only 

 be achieved between persons on the policy level; as opposed to persons 

 who are subpolicy level? 



Mr. Abel. Yes, at that actual point of policy determination and 

 effectuation, but previous to that point, there must be a feed-in of 

 information and education which has to be carried out at a level 

 whereby the man can physically associate himself with the material 

 at hand . 



Mr. Dingell. Is it not true, though, that the vast majority of the 

 representation of the various Government agencies on ICO are not 

 only subpolicy, but substantially subpolicy in dignity and position? 



Mr. Abel. I cannot answer concerning policy. They are bureau 

 chiefs. They are not at the Secretarial level, sir, nor at the Assistant 

 Secretarial level; except for Dr. Wakelin, that is correct. 



Mr. Dingell. As I read the law, policy-level positions are Cabinet 

 positions, are they not, and under those positions, they are strictly 

 administrative, and are so viewed in the civil service law : for example, 

 with regard to changing-of-the-guard when there is a change of the 

 administration. Am I wrong on that? 



Mr. Abel. It sounds right. I would presume that a man in charge 

 of a bureau dictates policy within his bureau. 



It is correct, of course, that these gentlemen are not members of 

 the Cabinet. 



Mr. Dingell. I would like to ask just one more question, and I 

 am going to yield to Mr. Bauer. 



You noted on page 2 of your statement that a recommendation 

 to the Federal Council for Science and Technology from ICO is later 

 published as the President's program in oceanography for the fiscal 

 year. Has there been a publication of the President's program for 

 oceanography for this year? 



Mr. Abel. No, sir. It is in process right now. We expect it 



Mr. Dingell. It is in process? 



Mr. Abel. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Dingell. Was there one published for last year? 



Mr. Abel. Yes, sir, March 19. 



Mr. Dingell. There was one published last year. Let me get to 

 this point, now. Would I be fair in inferring that before we can have 

 an intelligent appraisal, or an intelligent formulation of our annual 

 programs for oceanography that we ought to have a long-term program 

 for oceanography? Am I correct in that? 



