of possibly stopping the rampant growth of AIDS in Uganda where 

 one out of pvery four males between the ages of 18 and 40 have 

 AIDS. 



But I am talking more on a broad scale. Education, enhancing 

 the status of women throughout the entire continent. I would point 

 out that in Rwanda that if a mother lost six children in famine, 

 that she would have six more. In large part, because we are not 

 educating the population there as to what populations will do to 

 the environment. I do not see that in your statement at all. 



Would you comment briefly on that? I am sorry for such a long 

 question. 



Mr. Pringle. Not a bit. I think that it is absolutely true that you 

 are dealing with a whole network of things here, and certainly edu- 

 cation is one of them. But if I can give you a personal answer, 

 which I have not cleared with anybody, and may not be official pol- 

 icy. 



My personal view is that people everywhere make rational deci- 

 sions about family size. The proolem in Africa is that there is often 

 no family security. As long as you are in a situation where the 

 more hands you have to feed your family, the better off you are — 

 and that is tne situation in most of the agricultural areas in Afri- 

 ca — and when you do not know how many of your children are 

 going to survive infancy, which is emphatically still the case, then 

 it makes economic sense to have chilaren. And that is why people 

 do it. 



The value systems that place so much emphasis on family size 

 spring from those economic realities. And I am convinced that as 

 soon as people recognize that it is in their self-interest to have 

 fewer children, and that comes to some extent with education, then 

 they are going to do it. And that is reflected, as you know, in the 

 current type of programming that we do, which links health with 

 population. You have got to give people that assurance that the 

 children that they do have are going to survive before they get over 

 this kind of thing. 



Ms. Ros-LEHTl>fEN. Thank you. Mr. Sanford. 



Mr. Sanford. I will give up my turn. 



Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Mr. Chabot. 



Mr. Chabot. I will do the same. 



Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. 



We will interrupt our hearing for a series of votes, Mr. Ambas- 

 sador. We will be right back. 



[Recess.] 



Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. The subcommittee will come to order once 

 again. We still have a series of votes on the floor, but I thought 

 that I would come back and sneak in a few more questions. I will 

 then excuse myself again to go vote. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador, 

 for your patience. 



I wanted to ask you about the concept of ecotourism. Tradition- 

 ally, the international development community has shied away 

 from projects that involve promoting tourism, and some critics 

 argue that investment in tours and projects do not benefit the local 

 population. 



Yet in your written testimony, you discussed the need for 

 ecotourism. Tourism and ecotounsm are important industries in 



