to cut any environmental programs in the cuts that I know that 

 you have to make? 



And that is my only question, Madam Chair. 



Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. That is a good question. 



Mr. Bombardier. It will depend on the final shape of the foreign 

 aid appropriations bill that is passed this year. We have been able 

 to sustain the environmental and natural resource management 

 programs to this point in time. We would not like to cut those pro- 

 grams. 



As you pointed out, I believe, we are requesting more in Fiscal 

 Year 1997 than we did in Fiscal Year 1996. But right now, we are 

 not thinking of cuts. We are not focused on cuts. We are focused 

 on a positive way of addressing those programs. 



I would share one other comment, since you mentioned Niger. 

 You saw some very successful projects if you were in Niger. We 

 have had one of the most successful of our natural resources pro- 

 grams in that country. Of course, we are required by law to cut off 

 assistance to Niger as a result of the coup and we were all hoping 

 the recent elections would turn that situation around, but it is very 

 discouraging right now. 



Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Congressman Hastings. 



Congressman Johnston. 



Mr. Johnston. Just one observation. In South America, in a rain 

 forest in Brazil and areas like that, we established a policy of "debt 

 versus nature" swap; and traveling throughout Africa, their biggest 

 complaint is the debt that is saddled on them. 



Has the Administration thought about that line of thought, can- 

 celing or reducing the debt for certain set-asides of pristine areas? 



Mr. Bombardier. We have done some work in this area, particu- 

 larly in Madagascar, in terms of both debt for nature swaps and 

 in terms of environmental foundations that we help to establish 

 and that have long-term resources available to address these prob- 

 lems, including purchases. Although the discussion about these 

 techniques has been going on for a long time — I can remember it 

 from my days when I was up here on the Hill — it often takes Ad- 

 ministrations a long time to develop the procedures and we are just 

 beginning to get some good experience in Africa with this, so I 

 think we will be doing more of it in the future. 



Mr. Johnston. Yes. If you can make really wholesale rec- 

 ommendations across the board on specific countries, because that 

 is killing them. 



Mr. Bombardier. Sure. 



Mr. Johnston. The other question I have is I have a bad habit 

 of reading all my own mail, and I got a letter today, coincidentally, 

 from Earth Action dealing with Central Africa, specifically the Re- 

 public of Gabon, and their rain forest and the fact that they are 

 logging it now and destroying it. And they have a map here of 

 Central Africa, the Republic of Gabon, Cameroon. 



I was just wondering, you do not go into Gabon, because they 

 have oil so they do not need money. But are you concentrating at 

 all in that area — it says here their rain forest is larger than the 

 Amazon. 



Mr. Bombardier. That is right. That is what I was referring to 

 in my testimony on the Congo Basin. Gabon, the countries you 



