20 



I think continuing population programs, however unpopular they 

 might be within some quarters, is fundamental and that, I think, 

 primarily in the context of women and women's health. Population 

 in the sense of the social needs of communities to deal with popu- 

 lation growth and the reasons people have children, not just a more 

 top down authoritarian or technical solution would be the three. 

 Those would be the three things I would 



Ms. Ros-Lehtinp:n. Thank you. 



Mr. Mills. 



Mr. MiLi^. I would support what Mr. Wright says. I would just 

 add that in my meetings, and I meet quite often with African envi- 

 ronmentalists, one thing they often say to me is they do not really 

 feel they have anyone, for instance, in the U.S. embassy they can 

 turn to when they need help with environmental protection. It is 

 not really a priority there. Often, as you know, it is hard for Afri- 

 can individuals and groups to do the kind of work that Sierra Club 

 would do in their country. So I would again ask for help for the 

 people to be able to organize and not be harassed. 



Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. 



Mr. Hastings. 



Oh, he is gone. 



Mr. Johnston. 



Mr. Johnston. Thank you. Madam Chair. 



Mr. Mills, the Chair is right when she points out that we are 

 pretty knowledgeable of the human rights abuses in Nigeria and I 

 am sure Mr. Payne will address that a little more. We were in Ni- 

 geria 18 months ago. We met with Ken Saro-Wiwa's brother. We 

 met with Abiola — specifically, Mr. Payne met with Abacha. Met 

 with Abiola's wife, the one who was murdered. 



In your testimony on page five, which you skipped over and 

 which you alluded to later, you say, "The Sierra Club has come to 

 believe that a boycott of Shell Oil and an embargo of Nigerian oil 

 exports are the best way to stop the environmental and human 

 rights abuses in Nigeria." And then on page eight, you pick it up 

 again after the execution of the Ogonis. 



I have not heard anything domestically about a boycott by your 

 club against Shell Oil. Has it been well-publicized? 



Mr. Mills. I am doing my best. This is the first time that the 

 Sierra Club has adopted a national boycott like this and 



Mr. Johnston. When, specifically, was that date that you had a 

 boycott against Shell Oil? 



Mr. Mills. The board adopted the resolution 9 days after his 

 execution, which 



Mr. Johnston. OK. 



Let me go back. Mr. Payne and I asked for a report from the 

 GAO on the impact of an embargo by the United States on oil from 

 Nigeria. Have you had an opportunity to read that report? 



Mr. Mills. No, sir, I have not. 



Mr. Johnston. OK. 



I would strongly recommend that you look at it. 



Mr. Mills. I will. 



Mr. Johnston. I think you have to admit you are dealing with 

 friendly people here. But that report came back — and correct me — 

 we would be shooting ourselves in the foot. Almost, by trans- 



