134 



At the same time, if we were to develop a cadre of informed citi- 

 zens who could bring scientific literacy to our business community, 

 we think that this would be all to the better, while at the same 

 time, they contribute to the intellectual property and the intellec- 

 tual achievements of our universities and research programs. 



Mr. Cramer. If I might move you to a different subject that's 

 near and dear to my heart — EPSCOR — the EPSCOR program. 



As I read sort of the overall direction of your report, I become 

 concerned about how EPSCOR fits in, as we evaluate my state, and 

 Alabama, certainly has benefited tremendously from the EPSCOR 

 program. 



So would you care to respond to that? 



Dr. Fox. The EPSCOR is a program at the National Science 

 Foundation and it's intended to assure a sufficient infrastructural 

 support so that there can be a broad distribution of really very high 

 quality programs. 



The merit review process that's advocated in the document is cer- 

 tainly completely consistent with the EPSCOR program and what 

 the agencies do in bringing that program to operation is really pro- 

 vide the infrastructural support to allow all our citizens to have ac- 

 cess in that way. 



So there's nothing inconsistent with this report and the EPSCOR 

 program. 



Mr. Cramer. Right. Thank you very much. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Cramer. Mr. Gutknecht? 



Mr. Gutknecht. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



I just want to raise an issue that is somewhat related to this. We 

 have been talking here with Mr. Rohrabacher about — we're going 

 to have a discussion probably in the next couple of months in this 

 Congress about patents. 



My concern is that we are spending, both in private resources 

 and in public resources, an awful lot of money on research. And I'm 

 wondering if any of you three have any particular views about sub- 

 marine patents and some of the problems we're going to be discuss- 

 ing here, not necessarily on this Committee, but certainly in the 

 Congress. 



It is a real concern because we have a lot of biotech industry and 

 electronic industries and so forth in Minnesota that we come out 

 with a new product, and within a few months, somebody is knock- 

 ing it off, a very close relative of it in some other country. 



Any views or things that you'd like to share with us about that? 



Mr. Mahoney. It's a terrible problem. It really is. It's only gotten 

 marginally better. 



The Administration and the prior administration have done a 

 pretty good job on it. But China remains a serious problem. Most 

 of the countries in the developing part of the Far East are prob- 

 lems. Certain parts of Latin America, although Mexico has made 

 strong promises in the NAFTA treaty. 



But I can tell you, when you spend the kind of money that you 

 have to spend to develop a product, a pharmaceutical, for example, 

 $200 or $300 million in 10 or 12 years and to find that you try to 

 introduce it in certain parts of the world and it's just being copied. 



