147 



We understand some of the success stories of previous partner- 

 ship programs. In our report, we have many examples of them. 



But we feel that at a time of budget constraints, all possibilities 

 for R&D funding should be compared, to see where the productivity 

 is the best, where the government gets the best return. 



So with respect to ATP, we listed criteria under which ATP-type 

 programs, partnership programs, might be supported. You might 

 view our report as stating that we want to raise the standards for 

 these allocations. We would like to see some evaluations. 



After all, these programs grew very, very rapidly in a few years. 



And so, we're not against them. And if that's the view abroad, 

 it's the wrong view. We simply say the time has come to compare 

 them with other programs and to see how well the ATP-tjrpe pro- 

 grams are going. 



So far as technology transfer is concerned, research has an end 

 in itself. It's fine, it's fun, it's interesting. But it's a legitimate ques- 

 tion to ask about how the results of research can be transferred to 

 the treatment of disease, to the productivity of American industry 

 and all of those other things. 



Dr. Fox. I would only add that, as we hope that this report stim- 

 ulates laboratory, university, private sector cooperation, that the 

 projects that integrate these activities towards common research 

 goals will accomplish technology transfer. 



It's been stated that one of the best means of technology transfer 

 is to have well-trained students, post-doctor fellows, faculty, mov- 

 ing back and forth between sectors. And we hope that that empha- 

 sis will not be neglected in the report. 



Mr. Mahoney. One of the questions that you'd want to ask when 

 you're deciding that is would a company do that research them- 

 selves if the Federal Government wasn't providing the money free? 



If the answer is yes, then that doesn't seem to be a very good 

 expenditure. If the answer is that a small amount of government 

 money enables an enormous result, or that there's a piece of equip- 

 ment that's available only to this huge laboratory and it could be 

 made available in general to either universities or corporations, 

 that's a good. 



But to bone-feed the corporations is not a good idea. 



Mrs. MORELLA. Right. I know a GAO report has responded to 

 that concept with regard to ATP. 



I wasn't really thinking about that. I was thinking about doing 

 more with regard to the technology transfer. I think you may know 

 that with the support of this Committee, that the legislation I had 

 introduced several years ago did pass yesterday and will be signed 

 by the President, which will expedite utilizing our scientists and 

 our federal laboratories to get into commercialization with the pri- 

 vate sector through CRADAs, giving incentives to the scientists, as 

 well as protections to the industry, too. 



Well, thank you. I understand your concept. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Chairman Walker. Mr. Doyle? 



Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



It's good to see your smiling face. We missed you the last three 

 weeks. 



