81 



number was somewhere between 250,000 and 300,000 acre-feet. 

 The information that I have seen out of the Fish and WildHfe Serv- 

 ice just within the last couple of months says that in a worst case 

 we are talking about 136,000 acre feet. 



That is the entire Central Valley, and that is water that would 

 have to be reallocated away from other users to make up that level 

 one to level two requirement. But in actuality, that number is a lot 

 smaller than that because, as I mentioned earlier, the level two 

 water supplies, although they are not firm or at least prior to the 

 CVPIA they were not firm, they were historical. 



So a lot of that water is coming to the refuges anyway so as a 

 worst case, you have got 136,000, but the actual number in any 

 given year, and, of course, it would depend on the weather condi- 

 tions and the rainfall and so forth, but in any given year, it would 

 likely be considerably less than that. 



Mr. Farr. Well, part of this issue is certainty. 



Mr. Gaines. That is right. 



Mr. Farr. And it seems to me that we ought to be using more 

 data for certainty earlier in the decisionmaking process so that ev- 

 erybody knows ahead of time what is expected. What I think what 

 people don't like is, you know, expectations that are denied. 



Mr. Gaines. Yes. You mentioned certainty, and certainty is a big 

 issue for the farmers, and we understand that, and we can appre- 

 ciate that. It is also an issue for we that farm for ducks, so to 

 speak. Knowing how much water we are going to get going into a 

 certain year allows the various refuge managers and the land- 

 owners to plan out exactly how they are going to farm their wet- 

 land vegetation if you call it that. And it can make a tremendous 

 amount of difference. 



Some of the results that we have seen that have come out over 

 the past two and a half years have tremendously increased the 

 wetland food production on those lands because they had the cer- 

 tainty to plan out ahead of time just how they were going to irri- 

 gate the lands. 



Mr. DoOLlTTLE. The gentleman's time has expired. 



Mr. Farr. Half a minute? 



Mr. DOOLITTLE. OK. How much of this can be adjusted adminis- 

 tratively, and how much of it has to be done legislatively? 



Mr. Gaines. Well, we believe that all of it can be done adminis- 

 tratively. 



Mr. Farr. Thank you. 



Mr. DOOLITTLE. All right. We thank the members of this panel. 

 As with the other panel, we will have some additional questions we 

 will submit in writing and would ask you to respond expeditiously 

 to those. And with that, we will call up panel number 3, and we 

 will just ask you, Mr. Riggs, why don't you just lead off with panel 

 number 3. And you can make an introduction if you would CEire to 

 do so. We did incorporate your written testimony already so feel 

 free to summarize or abridge or whatever you would like to do. We 

 are glad you are here. 



