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serve areas. The REO director was sitting with the committee, the 

 team, as we call it, when we started addressing the issues here in 

 the LSR with the blowdown and he seemed to think that we would 

 be able to salvage timber out of it. 



But there are very mixed reviews. I included a letter from the 

 Medford District Manager, Dave Jones, and he had 80,000 board 

 feet that had been removed and we know that there are several 

 million board feet down, and said that it would be difficult to get 

 them out of the LSRs. 



Another person I talked to 



Mr. DeFazio. That was the BLM person? 



Ms. KUPILLAS. That is the BLM, the Medford BLM. 



Mr. DeFazio. Do you think it is a difference in interpretation be- 

 tween the BLM and the Forest Service? 



Ms. KUPILLAS. Yes. Everybody seems to scratch their heads and 

 think that it is going to be extremely difficult to take much timber 

 out of the LSRs. The maps that I showed you are the reason why. 

 Yet, when I read the record of decision, I can see that there is plen- 

 ty of opportunity to do it, but the interpretation is such that I do 

 not believe that we will actually get it done. 



The team that is working on it, I know for a fact that there is 

 agreement that they do not want to take ever5rthing out, that some 

 of it has to be left, but there should be a substantial amount of tim- 

 ber removed. We do not have to use chain saws. We can just get 

 it out of there. I will wait and see. It is real confusing. 



Mr. DeFazio. Is the conflict over the fact that these are not 

 roaded areas? Is that a problem, or 



Ms. KUPILLAS. That is not a problem. They are roaded. They im- 

 mediately took the stuff out of the campgrounds and off the roads, 

 but they think they cannot go in and just get it out of LSR. It is 

 beyond me, because they have the scientific evidence that it would 

 improve the LSRs to do it. 



Mr. DeFazio. In fact, I know that a lot of the LSRs are antici- 

 pated to be managed. You cannot take what is essentially, in many 

 cases, a tree plantation and unnatural densities and put a line 

 around it and have it grown into a natural functioning old growth 

 forest ecosystem without any sort of management activities when 

 man has interfered. 



I thought you raised two points I would like to explore a little 

 bit more. You said that apparently there are already — I had heard 

 there was a threat of infestation because of the unusual amount of 

 downed woody debris because of these extraordinarily unusual 

 events. You are saying they already have detected insect infesta- 

 tion and 



Ms. KUPILLAS. There is insect infestation already. The Douglas 

 fir bark beetle is already at work. 



Mr. DeFazio. I know you are not a forest etimologist, but does 

 that just prey on the downed woody debris or will it go after the 

 standing live timber? 



Ms. KUPILLAS. Three live trees for every downed tree is the mini- 

 mum that will happen. I have seen another report from 1955, an 

 etimologist's report on a bug infestation. I cannot quote you all the 

 statistics — I forgot to bring it — but it showed a far more significant 

 problem with the bugs than that. I mean, that is just a minimum. 



