22 



It could substantially take the whole stand. I am not an 

 etimologist. I am not a forester. 



Mr. DeFazio. Right. 



Ms. KUPILLAS. But I read this thing and I was shocked at the 

 potential here because of an historic event that happened pre- 

 viously where it did this. 



Mr. DeFazio. I would hope that representatives of the adminis- 

 tration are here and that Mr. Lyons, and again, I hope to be back 

 to direct questions in this area. I think you have raised some inter- 

 esting questions. There seems to be confusion at least between the 

 agencies, maybe even among the agencies on this, and I think it 

 warrants some clarification and expedited action. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Ms. KUPILLAS. I have word from Jack Ward Thomas's office that 

 it is up to the local supervisor to make the decision, but we do have 

 to refer to the REO, so it does not really work that way. 



Mr. Hansen. The gentlelady from Idaho, Mrs. Chenoweth. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Dr. Lee, I wanted to ask you, do you know if there are any for- 

 mal studies tracking what happens to dislocated wood products 

 workers or studies that evaluated how these workers benefited 

 from rural development programs associated with the implementa- 

 tion of the President's forest plan? 



Mr. Lee. I have looked around the region and I know of no sys- 

 tematic scientific studies that would be respected by social sci- 

 entists as evaluation research. I do not know of any efforts that 

 have been made to either track dislocated workers to see what hap- 

 pened to them or of any systematic studies that evaluated imple- 

 mentation of Option 9. 



Given that a considerable amount of Federal money has been 

 spent on mitigation programs, it is really not clear whether that 

 money reached the target of helping people dislocated recover and 

 find new work or solve their family problems or any of the other 

 issues that have come up. 



I think one of the real tragedies of this is that we have spent 

 hundreds of millions of dollars studying owls but we know nothing 

 systematically about what has happened to people. We have only 

 anecdotal reports. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. Dr. Lee, I appreciate your response, and I 

 hope that we can remedy that, because I also understand that 

 loggers are probably one of the most difficult to retrain. Their psy- 

 che, for instance, is in their work, and it is unique work. I came 

 from a logging community and I had experienced that among peo- 

 ple that I knew. It is very difficult to retrain them, so I really ap- 

 preciate your response. 



I want to thank Joan Smith for being here. Congratulations on 

 your election. I hope you can influence the advisory committee that 

 you are on and influence for the good. How do you feel about that, 

 Joan? 



Ms. Smith. Are you talking about the Klamath Province Advisory 

 Committee? 



Mrs. Chenoweth. Yes. 



Ms. Smith. It is very challenging. As I mentioned in my testi- 

 mony, there are 28, and I believe they are increasing it to 29, mem- 



