37 



ing outputs. This has to change if there is any hope of making Op- 

 tion 9 a success. Thank you. 



[The statement of Mr. Geisinger may be found at end of hearing.] 



Mr. COOLEY. Thank you, Mr. Geisinger. I want to ask you one 

 question, and my time is up, but in your experience as associated 

 and involved in this industry for as many years as you have been 

 involved, has the executive branch ever been involved in any tim- 

 ber contracts before? 



Mr. Geisinger. Certainly not to the extent that this one has. 

 Frankly, we wish they had been a little more involved than they 

 were. But the U.S. Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Manage- 

 ment are both professional organizations that have very qualified 

 people that understand their mandate and their instructions and 

 I think they have done their best to carry those out without undue 

 interference from the administration. 



I think it is always prudent for the Secretary to conduct over- 

 sight of these agencies, but when you have the Chairman of the 

 Council of Environmental Quality calling forest supervisors and 

 challenging their decisions, there is something wrong with that 

 process. 



Mr. CooLEY. What function of the executive branch or the White 

 House is involved? What branch is involved in these decisions? 



Mr. Geisinger. Basically, it is the Agriculture Department and 

 the Interior Department for the Forest Service and BLM, respec- 

 tively, but there is oversight basically coming out of CEQ. 



Mr. CooLEY. Thank you, Mr. Geisinger. That was very inform- 

 ative. 



Mr. Vento? 



Mr. Vento. I will withhold at this time. 



Mr. CoOLEY. Mr. Vento will hold. 



Mr. Herger? 



Mr. Herger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



I would like to begin perhaps with a question to Ms. Phillips. 



Ms. Phillips. Surely. 



Mr. Herger. I understand you are from the State of Washington. 

 Have you ever had an opportunity to come down into California 

 and look at the forests or observe wildlife there? 



Ms. Phillips. I am most familiar with Washington State and Or- 

 egon. I have been to California. I am not on the ground, as you can 

 see, with my wheelchair, not that familiar with a lot of the Califor- 

 nia forests. 



Mr. Herger. I have on occasion, regrettably, all too often, been 

 able to look. I represent all or parts of eight national forests in the 

 Northeastern part of California. We have had seven out of ten 

 years of drought in California. Our State is very different from 

 yours. We do not get nearly the amount of rainfall you do. We are 

 much more subject to catastrophic wildfires that will, as they have 

 all too often, completely consume our forests, as we have seen in 

 the Cottonwood fire, just north of Lake Tahoe, where there is abso- 

 lutely nothing left. So much of this is following these drought years 

 that we have had where fires go through and destroy everything. 



My question to you is, how much wildlife can exist in these areas 

 where the forests have been completely destroyed because of these 

 dead trees that the Forest Service tells us are 82 percent denser. 



