did not know it was 35 miles an hour or I think it should be 50 

 miles an hour, or I think this is a stupid place to have a speed 

 limit. You do not get to start assaulting the officer. There have got 

 to be some rules of a civil society. You know, Pete Rose did not get 

 to slug the umpire, and Magic Johnson did not get to push the ref- 

 eree, and hunters do not get to push around the Fish and Wildlife 

 Service individuals because they disagree with them. 



So, this hearing invokes a number of levels of concern. Yours is 

 that the baiting laws are apparently — from our discussions that the 

 baiting laws are too ambiguous and that hunters should not be 

 held liable, because they did not know. That is also to suggest that 

 speeders should not be held liable if they did not know what the 

 speed limit was. The fact is that there is some obligation on the 

 hunters. But I think in this case, we will see that there was not 

 a lot of ambiguity about whether this was baited or not baited. 



And secondly, the suggestion that this was all on the up-and-up 

 because we had a lot of sheriffs and judges and lawmakers and oth- 

 ers participating. I have hunted most of my life, and every now and 

 then, I have watched our colleagues in public service and elected 

 office be embarrassed because they are hunting without a plug in 

 their gun, or they are hunting without their license, or they did not 

 think anybody would really care. And from time to time, they get 

 snared. And so, they do not put a patina of legality on an activity 

 because of their presence or of their title in office. 



So, I look forward to the hearing. 



The Chairman. Well, I thank the gentleman. I think the wit- 

 nesses can understand the difference of opinion between the rank- 

 ing member and the Chairman himself I would just like to suggest 

 that when there are 250 hunters involved here, and four of those 

 were charged with assault, and most of that was just hollering, and 

 it took the agents to holler back. It takes two to tango in this game. 



The gentleman from Minnesota. 



STATEMENT OF HON. BRUCE F. VENTO, A U.S. 

 REPRESENTATIVE FROM MINNESOTA 



Mr. Vento. Mr. Chairman, this hearing is an interesting hearing 

 in an oversight nature, and I hope that we all will approach it with 

 an open mind. Obviously, there are sharp differences of opinions 

 with regards to the issue of manipulation of vegetation and so- 

 called baiting and the violations in terms of responsibility of the 

 Fish and Wildlife Service. And they have substantial responsibil- 

 ities in terms of coordination with State game and fish. In fact, for 

 most of my constituents and probably yours, Mr. Chairman, they 

 do not know where the State ends and the Federal Government be- 

 gins with regard to some of these laws. And so, we want to set a 

 clear path and policy in place with regard to this. 



I am fearful that so often the examples that are portrayed tend 

 to be sort of anecdotal stories, and we are hearing from one side 

 and perhaps not the other in these. So, I think that I would just 

 suggest again, Mr. Chairman, as I did earlier when we were deal- 

 ing with the Endangered Species Act that we try to get before us 

 at that point both sides of the story, so to speak, so that we could 

 judge the facts rather than just hearing from one group. I look at 



