74 



Mr. Vento. I might say I always like their testimony, Mr. Chair- 

 man. 



The Chairman. Well, I know you like it, but you are you. 



Mr. Vento. Before and after, right down the line. 



The Chairman. It may be, but one individual is not one of my 

 great environmentalists or great conservationists — I think you 

 know who I am talking about. 



Mr. Vento. Well, you must have a short list, then. 



The Chairman. Yes; I have got a short list, about that short. 



I have a vote on, and if you gentlemen will stay put, we will be 

 back hopefully no later than 4:00, and hopefully, we will be 

 through with this by 4:30. I do thank you if you will hang around, 

 please. 



[Recess.] 



The Chairman. The gentleman from Minnesota. 



Mr. Vento. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Manning and Mr. Horn, our former assistant secretary who 

 had responsibility for this particular topic, we appreciate your 

 being here. You did not solve it then; we are still apparently work- 

 ing on it. 



You know, I sort of just wanted to reiterate for the benefit of the 

 Chairman, who was out of the room, but I do not remember the pe- 

 riod of years, but I would ask Mr. Streeter about the number of in- 

 cidents where this occurred, and he said 35 over quite a few years 

 nationwide, 35 instances. And I do not remember the number of 

 years, but it would be good if we could just have that entire back- 

 ground data. 



The Chairman. Well, without objection, I am going to ask the 

 Fish and Wildlife Service to submit the data and who the individ- 

 uals were who were cited. 



Mr. Vento. And I think the other thing we would like is to know 

 who it was, in other words, if landowners or managers or others, 

 accessories, were actually, because we think that is part of the 

 issue here. My job is not to take anyone off the hook. In other 

 words, everyone is responsible, not just, for instance, the hunter. 

 But I think diligence in terms of hunting, whether you can take a 

 buck or a doe or, you know, there are all sorts of responsibilities 

 that go back to a hunter, like those brochures that they have that 

 they put out each year, and that I have to look at for fishing and 

 hunting and all of my other sportsmen brothers and sisters must 

 have to look at. 



So, Mr. Manning, I understand that in the State of Illinois, the 

 last 5 years, there have only been two Federal cases involving vio- 

 lations of baiting regulations in the entire State; is that correct? 



Mr. Manning. Our records show that we have had 332 cases of 

 baiting. Some were federally-issued tickets; some were not. 



Mr. Vento. Well, I am talking about the Federal, because I guess 

 right here, we are talking about Federal laws. What we are talking 

 about is the Migratory 



Mr. Manning. Migratory Bird Treaty Act. 



Mr. Vento. Yes. 



Mr. Manning. My chief of law enforcement was here earlier; he 

 had to go back to Illinois. He feels that there are enough significant 

 problems that it should be changed. 



