75 



Mr. Vento. Sure; if you have got a hunting area where there are 

 100 people on it or 88, as in the case here, that I understand what 

 your views are, but I am not asking you in this particular instance 

 of your view. I am just trying to get some information in terms of 

 numbers. Do you understand? And so, that is what we are dealing 

 with, the number of cases. When we talked about the 35 cases, 

 there were 300 and some instances, individuals, cited in there. And 

 so what we are trying to do is get down to — because these laws 

 have been around for a long time, and everybody disagrees with 

 baiting. 



The Chairman. These regulations, please. These regulations. 



Mr. Vento. Did I say rules? 



The Chairman. You said laws. 



Mr. Vento. Well, a regulation has 



The Chairman. I understand, but I- 



Mr. Vento. These are the wheels by which laws are carried into 

 effect, Mr. Chairman. 



The Chairman. These are the wheels that cause us great con- 

 cern. 



Mr. Vento. Well, I understand that, but changing the law here 

 is what you are talking about doing. 



And the other is that it is not really the baiting; it is just that 

 they do not understand the science. In other words, there is a dif- 

 ference or disagreement about the science involved in this, Mr. 

 Manning. 



Mr. Manning. Yes. 



Mr. Vento. So, I mean, the issue is that you want us to make 

 that. You want to make that decision, or you want us to make that. 

 But is it not your State — how would your State or service enforce 

 baiting regulations if we allow mowing and other forms of manipu- 

 lation, habitat manipulation, on moist soil management areas? In 

 other words, if seed is in the area, how can the Service discrimi- 

 nate between seed resulting from mowing and seed added to the 

 area intentionally, especially since at least some of the seed types — 

 in fact, I think most of them — planted in moist soil areas are avail- 

 able to buy? 



Mr. Manning. I would say that we would be able to discriminate 

 between the two seed types in the same fashion or the same man- 

 ner that they do now. In fact, there is nothing to prevent someone 

 who is unscrupulous from adding or providing additive seed to 

 moist soil management units that we now have. 



Mr. Vento. I think that is my point. 



Mr. Manning. Well, from a science standpoint, we know that 

 moist soil management is far better for the waterfowl resource 

 than planting cereal grains such as corn. That is proven. Dr. 

 Bellrose, Dr. Fredrickson, everyone agrees with that. 



Mr. Vento. You are arguing the science of what you are doing, 

 but I am just suggesting if we were to enforce this and to change 

 the regulation in light with your view of what the science is — and 

 you are entitled to that, you know, but how would we, in fact, then, 

 enforce this? 



Mr. Manning. In the same fashion we do now. If there is addi- 

 tive seed there, we will have to do that. 



