89 



The Chairman. Well, you asked the question; Mr. Boe is there. 



Mr. Boe. Well, I do not know if he would be able to or not. It 

 was a decision made by the United States Armed Forced to deny 

 him the waiver. 



Ms. Chenoweth. Thank you. I will continue to work with Rep- 

 resentative Stearns on this. 



The Chairman. I think that is a good idea too, Helen, and we 

 will work with him to see if there is any way to rectify that. 



Unfortunately, by admitting — and those who did pay their fines, 

 George, you will recognize this. I doubt if many of them go hunting 

 any more. Because if they get a second offense for anything, it is 

 huge. 



Mr. Reiger. It doubles. 



The Chairman. Yes, it is big time. 



And again, if they go out hunting, and if this baiting law is not 

 changed, that cowboy can just decide we are going to go get those 

 guys. 



Steve? 



Mr. Boynton. Mr. Chairman, just one comment to follow up on 

 a statement that was made. One of the problems that you have — 

 and this is true with our judicial system, but allegations that are 

 made in a court of law by the Fish and Wildlife Service, my experi- 

 ence is — and this is on a lot of cases in a lot of different states — 

 is that the judge is more acquainted with the U.S. attorney, who 

 is representing the Government, and he is going to believe the Fish 

 and Wildlife Service more than that candlestick maker who comes 

 in. It is just like going in before the judge: I was not speeding. Your 

 Honor; the policeman said you are speeding. Well, you better get 

 out your checkbook. 



The Chairman. Right. 



Mr. Boynton. And it is that sad situation. And what has hap- 

 pened because of these baiting laws — and Mr. Reiger's experience 

 is — when I was a boy, they were conservation officers, and they 

 were your friend. And now, it has become "them and us," and I 

 think that that is terribly unfortunate and somehow has to change. 

 And I think they need the guidance as well as the sportsmen. 



The Chairman. Yes, I agree. And Sheriff Larry Edmonds, for in- 

 stance, was cited, and he said: "I was only on that field today be- 

 cause I felt obligated to support youth ranches. I do not intend to 

 shoot any more doves, because it is too hard to do it legally when 

 they have laws like this, and it is a bad law." 



And I cannot agree more. And that is the whole intent of these 

 hearings, regardless of what Mr. Miller has said and Mr. Vento. 

 We are going to change this law. I may not get the President to 

 sign it this time, but it will be changed. It will move out of the 

 House, and it is the right thing to do. And we are working on it. 



And I happen to agree with the gentlelady from Idaho about the 

 accusations made by the arresting officer about people being drunk 

 in the field. That is a terrible thing to say in the Committee, and 

 yet, you cannot dispute what he said, because he made the state- 

 ment, and nobody can deny it other than those people directly in- 

 volved. If there were some bad things going on, he should have spo- 

 ken up. As far as it being a question of safety, I am worried about 



