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Mr. Baker. Dr. Lane, the people in the Entitlements Committee 

 and the Education Committee, and the Welfare Committee, and 

 every committee we talk to, have the same feeling. We are here be- 

 cause we care about science, not because we came to cut it. 



Dr. Lane. Right. 



Mr. Baker. Okay? We agree with you. 



But that feeling is throughout Congress. We did not get to $5 

 trillion overnight. We added $200 billion a year. They have told us. 

 No more. So we have to do our part. 



My question again is. Will you help us get there in a painless 

 way? Or are we going to go a partisan way? 



The partisan way is, we take your TV program and wave it like 

 a bloody shirt and show that, beyond a reasonable doubt, you are 

 wasting all your money. That is the partisan way — the election 

 year blip way. We do not want to do it the other way. 



By golly, we are going to spend more on you, and you can count 

 on us. 



Dr. Lane. Well, Mr. Baker, I am here to defend the President's 

 budget. I think it is an appropriate budget for NSF. It is not a 

 large increase that has been presented, but certainly a very good 

 budget in difficult times. 



Mr. Baker. I will conclude my questioning by saying. To raise 

 people up to drop them farther down is not probably a good thing 

 in physics. It is probably not a good thing in budget. 



Dr. LANE. Well, Mr. Baker, I certainly will tell you that we will 

 do everything we can to ensure that the planning that we have in 

 place, especially for things that have long, long playouts, implica- 

 tions for many years down the road, will certainly take into consid- 

 eration the uncertainty of the budget and that these are difficult 

 times. 



Mr. Baker. You hit the key word. 



In Livermore Lab they are going to cut their budget. I know that. 

 Everybody knows that. It was recommended by the Department of 

 Energy — not the mean-spirited Republicans in Congress. 



The only thing I asked the Department of Energy was, no, not 

 that I'll vote for more money for the labs — of course I will, and 

 Sheri will join me — but we are not going to get away with it — so 

 I asked them, please give us a certainty. Tell us what the budget 

 is going to be next year, and the year after, and the year after. 



They promised to do that by next week. 



What does that do? That allows me and the Department of En- 

 ergy to go to those employees and say. This is what it is going to 

 look like over five years. These are the retraining programs that 

 are available. These are the other science slots that are available. 

 Let's help us help you get through that. 



By artificially raising your expenditures and then dropping you 

 on your head, you are not being fair to your employees, and you 

 are not being fair to the science budget. 



That is all I am asking. Cooperate with us. We are not after you. 

 We are on your side. 



Mr. SCHIFF. The gentleman's time has expired. 



Mr. Ehlers? 



Mr. Ehlers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



