20 



I'd also like to just follow up on this idea of bringing other infor- 

 mation into the development of the ideas. The spill risk analysis 

 that was performed, which is primarily the foundation for the spill, 

 in that process they never considered or contacted us to do some 

 runs, do some analysis with our model. We spent 7 years develop- 

 ing the system which is designed to analyze the risk for different 

 actions. It was a tremendous amount of work and it was not uti- 

 lized in this process. 



Senator Kempthorne. So in other words, it took you 7 years to 

 develop a model. Then did National Marine Fisheries Services uti- 

 lize that model in their draft plan? 



Mr. Anderson. For the spill, they did not. 



Senator Kempthorne. Did they give any reason why they did 

 not? 



Mr. Anderson. My feeling is there are alternative models, the 

 models give different results, and they concluded to back off from 

 model results because they have uncertainties and I think there is 

 a difference between scientific uncertainty and ignorance. We need 

 to really separate the two. 



Senator Kempthorne. Is this something too when we ask about 

 a meaningful peer review process, all of us must feel that if we're 

 contributing something, that it will be considered but here is a 

 model that was done that took 7 years and not utilized. Is that one 

 of the things that is perhaps a demoralizing factor to then step for- 

 ward again as a scientist to offer your services? 



Mr. Anderson. It might be. In my case, it isn't. It just makes 

 me want to bring this information out even more and try to get 

 people to use our work and to understand it and criticize it so that 

 we can improve it. 



Senator Kempthorne. All right. 



I want to thank all of you. I appreciate greatly the input that 

 you've provided us. This is the sort of discussion that I wish we 

 could just continue for some time. I would suggest that our commu- 

 nication channels are open and as you have further thoughts on 

 this issue, as well as the Endangered Species Act, I would welcome 

 your input because I respect all of you that are here. 



With that, I would ask the next panel if it would come forward. 

 We will take a brief 2-minute recess as we do that. 



[Recess.] 



Senator Kempthorne. Ladies and gentlemen, we will continue 

 this hearing. I've been advised that at approximately 11:30 a.m., 

 there will be a vote so what I'd like to do is we have three members 

 of this panel that will be making opening comments and again, I 

 would ask that you try to keep it to close to 5 minutes. Assuming 

 we could get through the opening statements and they would then 

 call for the vote, I would recess. 111 quickly run over and vote and 

 be right back, and then we'll do our question part of this. 



With that, let me first introduce Mr. Will Stelle who is the Direc- 

 tor of the Northwest Region, National Marine Fisheries Service, ac- 

 companied by Michael Schiewe, Division Director, Coastal Zones. 

 Mr. Stelle, if you'd like to proceed, please? 



