23 



On an international level, right now we have many of our travel- 

 ers, our tourists, who are interested in resource-based tourism 

 going to Costa Rica, Kenya, Mexico, and other countries. These dol- 

 lars are leaving. We have a chance, I believe, to retain those dol- 

 lars with that consistent resource base. 



I agree that these resources should be managed at the State 

 level, and I believe this initiative does that. These moneys will be 

 transferred to the states and then their agencies can work on pri- 

 vate land initiatives, et cetera; for example, in the State of Texas 

 where I think a lot of the money will go to private land initiatives. 



Mr. LONGLEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. McDowell. Mr. Chairman, could I say one thing about that? 



Mr. Saxton. Go ahead. 



Mr. McDowell. I think that is the beauty of this program really 

 because the State directed — the State partnerships with private 

 landowners — part of this is the backbone of this legislation. It actu- 

 ally takes less Federal oversight just like Pittman-Robertson and 

 D-J, and what it does is put the power in the hands of the State 

 agencies to do just what you are talking about, and that is with 

 conservation easements, protecting critical habitat, and providing 

 recreational uses. And this can be done very much — very closely 

 and very effectively with private landowners. So it is not a Federal 

 program in that sense. 



Mr. Saxton. OK. Thank you. Mr. Shadegg, did you want to ask 

 a question or two? 



Mr. Shadegg. I would like to if I could, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Saxton. Proceed. 



Mr. Shadegg. First of all, let me thank the Chairman for allow- 

 ing me — I am not a member of this subcommittee, but let me thank 

 you for allowing me to join you and ask some questions. Second, 

 let me apologize to the panel. I have been in another committee 

 where I had to do some questioning, and I wasn't able to hear all 

 of your testimony. However, I think I am coming down very much 

 on your side of this issue, and I am going to make some general 

 remarks and then perhaps ask each of you to comment if you 

 would. 



I represent a western State, Arizona. Though I am a Republican, 

 I am very interested in protecting wildlife, wildlife habitat, endan- 

 gered species, and recreational opportunities. I grew up through 

 the Boy Scout system. I learned a lot about conserving land. I 

 learned a lot about the value of wildlife and outdoor experiences, 

 and I also learned the importance of conservation. 



I believe that we have for a long time in America recognized that 

 consumptive recreational users — ^hunters and fishermen — ought to 

 pick up the tab for making sure or participate in paying for outdoor 

 opportunities and for the wildlife that is there and the outdoors 

 that they get to use. 



I think more and more one of the things that is dividing the Na- 

 tion on this issue of wildlife, wildlife preservation, wildlife habitat 

 preservation, and endangered species is a divide between those 

 people who want to go visit these lands, want them preserved for 

 them to visit and enjoy and hike and hunt and fish or bird-watch 

 or whatever — and I should take out hunt and fish — bird-watch — 

 just getting the experience of nature, which I had the opportunity 



