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to do as a Boy Scout where it is nice to get out of the city and get 

 away from it all, and those who own much of that land or who are 

 currently using it under Federal land policies. 



And we have a divide here, and it seems to me that your pro- 

 posal, the "Teaming with Wildlife" idea, is at the cutting edge of 

 how we try to strike a balance. It seems to me that people in Mr. 

 Longley's district or Mr. Torkildsen's district or Mr. Saxton's dis- 

 trict who want to come to the West, to Arizona or to Wyoming or 

 Montana, and want it not to be despoiled, and want to be able to 

 see a rare species of bird ought to be able to do that. That is in 

 everybody's interest. 



But if, in fact, we create the sentiment in the West the total bur- 

 den economic and lifestylewise of preserving that habitat is just 

 going to be rested upon the people in the West and that their 

 rights are going to be diminished or their property value is going 

 to be diminished or their ability to use their land is going to be di- 

 minished, then we create this tension. 



And I think "Teaming with Wildlife" is the right way to go. I am 

 very anxious in how we structure it so that we say to somebody 

 who wants to be an occasional user of these lands, "Help us pay 

 the tab." And while I am a rock-ribbed fiscal conservative who 

 signed a no new tax pledge, this is an area where I think we have 

 a disproportionate allocation of the burden for the preservation of 

 these lands. 



Everyone wants these lands preserved. Fine. Let us just make 

 sure that the burden of doing so is shared equally amongst all the 

 users. And so I commend you and would ask for your comments on 

 where we might go here and whether or not you agree with my 

 general point on this area. Gentlemen? 



Mr. Jenks. Mr. Shadegg, I am a hunter. I am representing the 

 National Wild Turkey Federation, and I concur with your com- 

 ments. I think definitely it is the right thing to do at the right 

 time. It will spread it out. I would add that where P-R and D-J in- 

 volved 10 or 11 percent user fee, if you will, we are talking here 

 about maximum less than half — five percent — and in some cases 

 less than one percent, two to three percent. 



And once people know, notwithstanding some other comments, 

 where the money is going and what it is about, especially with the 

 young people these days that are seeing the nature programs, even 

 though they may not use a sleeping bag out of doors, even though 

 they may buy some boots and never really go out on a trail, they 

 know what it is about. They appreciate the backyard wildlife. They 

 want to do the right thing. And I think without question this is the 

 right time to do this. 



Mr. Shadegg. If I could just interrupt right there, I mean, one 

 of the specifically articulated arguments of the environmental com- 

 munity is that we want to know that it is there. Even if we don't 

 get to go out there and enjoy it, we want to know that it is there 

 so that if two or three or five years from now we can or if we can 

 never get there but some wildlife photographer can get there, we 

 want to be able to have that occur. 



Mr. Jenks. It belongs to the people of this country, the land, the 

 wildlife, the fish. People want to protect it. They want to conserve 



