26 



Mr. Mac Donald. Congressman, I would just like to endorse and 

 say amen to what you said. And, Mr. Chairman, I don't know if 

 there is a way that we could trade his testimony for mine, but I 

 definitely like what he said. But there is one other piece that 

 struck me. I think it is very important, and I don't want it over- 

 looked. 



You talk about your background in Boy Scouts and learning 

 about conservation. At our company, our greatest philanthropic ef- 

 fort for the future is going to be in youth development and con- 

 servation. And if nothing else happens related to this, the potential 

 for youth development and education to teach individuals, particu- 

 larly youth, about the outdoors is the greatest thing that we could 

 do. It is the way that we can create that certain scenario for our 

 kids, our grandkids so they can enjoy the resource that we have en- 

 joyed. 



Mr. Saxton. Thank you. The gentleman's time 



Mr. Shadegg. I thank you, gentlemen, and I appreciate the 

 Chairman for his indulgence. 



Mr. Saxton. The gentleman's time has expired. Those are bells 

 which are calling us for a vote, but let me get my five minutes or 

 so of questions in before we go, and then we can move on to the 

 next panel during the break. 



First of all, let me commend you for stepping up to the plate and 

 identifying a funding source for something that you all believe is 

 important. For many years, around the Congress of the United 

 States, people had programs which they identified as being impor- 

 tant, and they went directly to the Appropriations Committee and 

 over time pressured the Appropriations Committee to fund the 

 project, and we ended up with a $5 trillion debt. And so what you 

 are doing in terms of the way you approached this I think is very 

 commendable, and I want to say thank you for doing it this way. 



Let me ask a couple of questions about the mechanics of how I 

 understand this tax — user's fee — you know, the old duck thing. You 

 know, if it looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, it is probably 

 a duck. I understand that the manufacturer will be responsible for 

 paying the user's fee. Is that the way you understand it? That is 

 correct. 



My concern is this. I used to be a schoolteacher, and I used to 

 help folks understand things with examples. And so let me use an 

 example, and if I had a blackboard here, it would be useful. But 

 if you can just go along with me here without one, let us suppose 

 for a minute that a manufacturer produced a product that the 

 manufacturer sold to a wholesaler for $50. 



And using the schedule of tax — of user's fee here — I keep getting 

 those words mixed up — using the schedule that was provided to me 

 here, it would say that — let us say it was a pair of hiking boots. 

 And so a five percent user's fee paid by the manufacturer would 

 amount to $2.50. 



Now, I extrapolate that on down the road, those hiking boots 

 passed through the wholesaler and on to the retailer. And when 

 the wholesaler passes those hiking boots through, he has a percent- 

 age of markup, and I don't know what that percentage of markup 

 is. But let us just say to make it simple that his percentage of 

 markup is 100 percent. 



