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Mr. Leape. I will go first. I haven't heard their testimony yet, so 

 I don't know specifically what concerns they have. I think there is 

 some grounds for frustration. The implementation of part of the 

 Act has been slow, in particular the two sets of regulations that I 

 mentioned in my testimony. We do think that the regulations al- 

 ready in place, specifically those for permits, that allow permits or 

 authorized permits for cooperative breeding programs are legiti- 

 mate regulations. I believe that the requirements imposed — the 

 two-page permit application and the information asked of each co- 

 operative breeding program — are a reasonable set of requirements. 

 I think there has been frustration that sometimes the processing 

 of permits takes too long. My understanding is that on average it 

 has taken something like six months. Now although some of that 

 may be slowness in the applicant providing necessary information, 

 clearly some of it also is slowness in processing permits. And as 

 you suggest, $100,000 for the entire country is not a lot to admin- 

 ister a permit program and I would be surprised if we had any dis- 

 sent on this panel or the next that the government ought to have 

 more resources to make this program work, both to make it work 

 efficiently for those who need permits and also for it to be effective 

 for those concerned about conservation of wild populations. 



Mr. Saxton. Thank you. Dr. Telecky. 



Dr. Telecky. Yes. Well, like Mr. Leape I haven't seen AFA and 

 PIJAC's testimony on this issue, but as I testified today, I know of 

 at least two areas that they are concerned with. One is the foreign 

 qualifying facilities, but I think in that case it is a little bit of the 

 fear of the unknown because those regulations have not been final- 

 ized yet and so it reallv hasn't been put to a test. The other issue 

 that I am aware of is the permit application procedure for coopera- 

 tive breeding programs, which I also addressed. There is a permit 

 procedure out there and operating right now, and as I testified, 

 there have been 12 applications and only two of those have been 

 denied. And I believe the Fish and Wildlife Service is trying to 

 streamline that process a little bit more. I also would agree with 

 Mr. Leape in that I would assume that additional funding provided 

 for the purposes of implementing the Wild Bird Conservation Act 

 could only, you know, help in terms of getting the regulations out 

 there a little bit faster and getting those permits processed a little 

 bit more quickly. Thank you. 



Mr. Saxton. If it is taking six months to get a permit, at least 

 in many cases, it would seem to me that this Act would be working 

 very well in terms of keeping the number of birds that are im- 

 ported into the country at a low number and certainly that was not 

 the intent of this panel when the bill was passed. Would you agree 

 with that statement? 



Dr. Telecky. I would certainly agree with that. 



Mr. Saxton. Dr. Beissinger. 



Dr. Beissinger. Yes, Mr. Chairman. This Act, and the changes 

 requested in the Act, are because the Act results in a change in 

 business. The business expectations now are different. No longer 

 can aviculture and the pet industry have complete, uncontrolled ac- 

 cess to wild bird populations. That results in some changes that 

 need to be made within the avicultural community to adjust, and 

 those changes take time. Aviculturists need to organize themselves 



