34 



that bird breeders have a role to play in increasing both the num- 

 ber and size of the gene pool for exotic birds? 



Mr. LiLiENTHAL. I will take that one again as one of the two 

 aviculturists on the panel. I think perhaps these questions are 

 maybe for us to answer. We believe that the need for increased 

 gene pools is a must. Dr. Beissinger mentions 50 to 75 birds. I have 

 been told by our director of conservation, Dr. Benny Gallaway, who 

 has a Ph.D. in wildlife and fisheries services, that the current norm 

 is 1000 birds for a viable gene pool. We are finding now that in 

 some of the species that we are not able to import anymore that 

 are shorter-lived, such as the finches, are experiencing a drop-off 

 in the diversity in their gene pool, and we are concerned about in- 

 breeding. 



We are also concerned because as we are unable to increase gene 

 pools, that acts as an enticement to unscrupulous people for illegal 

 activity — smuggling. Aviculturists abhor smuggling. Smuggled 

 birds are dangerous to avicultural collections. They bring in dis- 

 ease. AFA is the only organization in the United States of which 

 I am aware which has produced a bilingual, multi-colored anti- 

 smuggling poster and we donated it to the Fish and Wildlife Serv- 

 ice. I actually presented a copy of this poster to this committee 

 when it held the WBCA hearings. We have a copy of it on display 

 here today. We are very concerned about the dilution of gene pools 

 and what is going to happen if we cannot at least bring in captive- 

 bred birds, never mind wild-caught birds under sustainable trade. 

 And the gene pool issue is a major issue for us. 



Dr. Clubb. There are many species in the United States for 

 which we have developed avicultural techniques and have devel- 

 oped very large gene pools and very stable populations. There are 

 other species for which we have not developed these techniques yet 

 or perhaps they were imported in fair numbers many years ago 

 when birds were imported for the pet trade didn't fall into the 

 hands of responsible aviculturists in time to establish these birds. 



As we become more sophisticated, we think we should get an op- 

 portunity to work with these species again. And we would prefer 

 to bring in captive-bred birds if they are available and if the regu- 

 lations will allow us to bring in captive-bred birds. If not, we feel 

 that we can be responsible and bring in low numbers for captive 

 breeding from the wild without damaging wild populations unless 

 it is a bird like the Spix's macaw. Obviously we don't intend to tiy 

 to import rare and highly endangered birds for aviculture unless it 

 is absolutely necessary. 



Mr. Saxton. ok, well, thank you very much for your testimony. 

 We appreciate it very much. This subcommittee does take its work 

 very seriously and we will certainly try to work with the Service 

 to try to provide a better situation within which you all work and 

 literally live. Thank you very much. 



[Whereupon, at 11:57 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned; and 

 the following was submitted for the record:] 



