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year 1994. In fiscal 1995, the next year, we requested again some 

 increases for our permits programs in general. We did not get all 

 of what we requested. In fiscal 1996 we requested a small increase, 

 $100,000 I believe it was, for our permits programs. We did not re- 

 ceive that increase. So, Mr. Chairman, we have some funding for 

 wild birds, but we have not received overall for the permits pro- 

 gram as much as we had requested. 



Mr. Saxton. I just want to make sure that we are not confused 

 on this. I have a memo here from Dr. Lieberman which indicates 

 clearly that the request for '95 was zero and that the request for 

 '96 was zero. 



Mr. Jones. Mr. Chairman, that was the request that was specifi- 

 cally identified under Wild Bird Act. We requested funds in fiscal 

 year 1994 under the Wild Bird Act, but we also requested funds 

 for our general permits program, because it is a little hard to sepa- 

 rate. Some aspects of our permits processing are generic, whether 

 it is Wild Bird Act, Endangered Species Act, Marine Mammal Act 

 or other laws that we administer. So Dr. Lieberman's information 

 that you have there is certainly correct in terms of what we re- 

 quested specifically under this law, but it does not cover general in- 

 creases that we requested for permit activities in those fiscal years 

 that included a wide variety of laws. 



Mr. Saxton. You are taking funds from another general source, 

 is that what you are sa3dng? 



Mr. Jones. Yes, sir. We have a general appropriation. This year 

 it is — the line item is International Affairs in the Fish and Wildlife 

 Service budget, and in our budget request to Congress we very spe- 

 cifically describe all the different activities which are funded out of 

 that, and the Wild Bird Act is mentioned there, but it is one of sev- 

 eral laws which we administer. 



Mr. Saxton. Do you think — are you adequately funded? I think 

 that is the bottom line here. Can you do your job with the funding 

 that you are able to find from other sources? Do you need more 

 staff? Would you be able to meet your deadlines and your objectives 

 more adequately if you were properly funded? 



Mr. Jones. Mr. Chairman, I guess there is — somewhere there is 

 a law that — a rule that bureaucrats are sort of trained in one way 

 to say there is never enough funding. In this case, Mr. Chairman, 

 I would say that we believe we have enough resources to admin- 

 ister the law. We did make requests for increases that would have 

 helped us administer the law better that we did not get. In this 

 time of fiscal constraints, we all recognize that we have to try to 

 work as efficiently as we can, and so we are prepared to administer 

 the law to the very best of our ability and, we think, to administer 

 the law fairly with the resources that we have now. 



Mr. Saxton. I am not — ^Mr. Studds was the chairman and did a 

 lot of work on this, and I will turn to him, but we authorized up 

 to $5 million a year, I believe, because we were — we assumed that 

 there would be tasks to be performed that would require some sig- 

 nificant amount of money. And you are performing these tasks. I 

 guess on the one hand we should congratulate you, but on the 

 other hand if the small amount of money is prohibiting or making 

 it too difficult or making it burdensome on the users that we are 

 here to regulate, then that could certainly cause us some concern. 



