cies of one kind or another or the Division of Fish and Wildlife, and 

 it really makes our job very difficult because then we have to jus- 

 tify the intent of the law in the face of overreaching on the part 

 of agencies. 



And this example is probably the most fallacious example, that 

 I have ever heard, of overreaching. And I wish that environmental 

 protection agencies and the Division of Fish and Wildlife and other 

 state, Federal and local agencies would put themselves in a posi- 

 tion of being more responsible all the time, because when some- 

 thing like this happens it just makes it extremely difficult for all 

 of us who want to do a responsible job. 



From your point of view, how do you think this situation should 

 have been handled? 



Mr. EwiNG. Well, I think the agency should use a lot of common 

 sense in appl3dng the law. I would have either given a verbal notice 

 or a written notice to the people involved that they were in viola- 

 tion of the law, that they could be prosecuted for their activities, 

 and then I would have watched very closely to see what happened. 

 If they didn't cease the activity immediately, then they should be 

 prosecuted. I took a few surveys in groups, and I askea how many 

 people knew there was even such a law on the books, and no one — 

 almost no one — would raise their hand. 



Now that isn't a defense not to know the law, but it is in fact 

 a condition that I think responsible law enforcement would take 

 into consideration. So I think a simple notice given, at least on the 

 first violation for somebody in just possession, and then notify 

 them of the law would be the best way to handle it. 



Mr. Saxton. Well, I want to thank you for your testimony and 

 for bringing this situation to our attention. The ranking member 

 has arrived, and I suspect that perhaps he doesn't have any ques- 

 tions at this time, but welcome aboard. Appreciate you being here. 

 And thank you very much, Mr. Ewing, for your testimony, unless 

 you have something further to add. 



Mr, EwiNG. If I can be of any further service or make any more 

 input on this, I would be very happy to do so. Thank you very 

 much, 



Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much. Now let me introduce our 

 second panel also comprised of one person, Mr. Marshall Jones, 

 who is the Assistant Director of International Affairs for the U.S. 

 Fish and Wildlife Service. Mr. Jones, we are anxious to hear your 

 testimony, and so you may begin whenever you are ready. 



Mr. Jones. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Saxton. Mr. Jones, I understand there is a Sue Lieberman 

 with you. If she would like to join you at the table, that is up to 

 you. 



Mr. Jones. All right, Mr. Chairman, I would be happy to ask Dr. 

 Lieberman. And I also have Mr. Tom Striegler with me and I have 

 Mr. Roddy Gable from our scientific authority. 



Mr. Chairman, before I start my statement on the Wild Bird 

 Conservation Act, I wanted to take note of the testimony which 

 was given by the previous panelist. I was not asked to prepare tes- 

 timony on the dream catcher issue and the Migratory Bird Treaty 

 Act, and so I am not prepared to address those issues today. How- 

 ever, Mr. Chairman, if this committee has any questions about the 



