GENERAL FARM PROGRAM 79 



Then you force him to bankruptcy by telluig him he cannot do 

 that because he must come under the same reguhition that a wheat 

 farmer in Mr. Hope's territory comes under, where wheat is grown, 

 or a corn farmer in Iowa that grows corn and nothing else, has to 

 come under. You cannot see the difference in a family-type farm. 



Tell me why it would not simplify your program if you made a 

 distinction between a man who does not sell his products on the 

 commercial market and the commercial farmer? 



Mr. Hope. It seems to me the gentleman ought to define what he 

 means by a family-type farm. If I understand it correctly, your 

 definition of a family-type farm is a subsistence farm where you do 

 not sell anything off the farm at all . 



Mr. Hill. He might sell livestock, but he would not sell commercial 

 corn and he would not sell commercial wheat. There is quite a 

 difference between selling corn in hogs and corn in ensilage through 

 the cow. 



Mr. Hope. Wliat is the difference? 



Mr. Hill. I can explain the difference in one illustration. I walked 

 over much of a certain section of Portugal. That is all you need to do. 

 There is no hvestock. The land is washed away. It is good for nothing 

 People who live on the farms are serfs. 



That is exactly where you are going to be headed if we are going to 

 peel off the topsoil and continue to destroy the ground that has made 

 America self-sufficient. The man markets his products, but he does 

 not market them commercially. He markets them tkrough dairy 

 cattle and hogs, and so on. 



Mr. Pace. I think the Secretary had better be given a moment to 

 reply to that. 



Mr. Hill. I am asking a fundamental question. I am not talking 

 about the maniplations of the market with the product the farmer 

 grows. I am talking about keeping the farmer on the farm. 



Mr. Pace. I am afraid you have put the Secretary in a position he 

 has never assumed. 



Mr. Hill. I want to laiow if it would not be much easier to work 

 this program out if you would leave these farmers alone. 



Mr. Pace. I know the Secretary is interested in the family-sized 

 farm, and I think he ought to have an opportunity to reply before 

 the question gets cold. 



Secretary Brannan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Of course, my definition of a family-sized farm, applied to an 

 acreage limitation, would probably include 80 or 90 percent of the 

 corn which is produced. Therefore, if you were to do anything about 

 the acreage limitations or marketing quotas, which the statute 

 prescribes that you shall, then you could not begin to do it if you Aid 

 not include the family-sized farms of this country. 



In my opinion, most of the farms in the Corn Belt area are family- 

 sized farms. Some may be bigger than others. My definition of 

 family-sized farms is not the subsistence farm, and I do not think it 

 is Mr. Hope's definition of the family-sized farm. 



Mr. Hill. I did not say anything about that. 



Secretary Brannan. If they are the major producers of the bulk 

 of the commodity, then if you are going to do anything with the 

 commodity you have to ask those people to participate. 



