GENERAL FARM PROGRAM 921 



help everybody under the Secretary's formula, whereas you would 

 hurt everybody under the Aiken formula. You study that. 



Mr. HoLMAN. We will be glad to study that, but even then there 

 is a bigger issue — what kind of an economic life are we going to have 

 in this country? 



Mr. Pace. I have always said that I thought the present parity 

 price on dairy products is unfair and should be adjusted. 



Mr. HoLMAN. I think that. 



Mr. Pace. As I understand it, you rather emphatically disapprove 

 of the production-payment plan proposed by the Secretary of 

 Agriculture. 



Mr. HoLMAN. Yes. 



Mr. Pace. Both on account of the expense and general objections? 



Mr. HoLMAN. That was what I was referring to when I said, "\^^iat 

 kind of an economic life are we going to have in this country?" We 

 do not like that kind of civilization. 



Mr. Pace. But have you not in the next breath recommender' a 

 stamp plan for dairy products? 



Mr. HoLMAX. Not for dairy products. 



Mr. Pace. For what? 



Mr. HoLMAN. That is really an eleemosynary undertaking, the 

 Aiken bill. It assumes there are a great many people in the country j 

 some of whom are pensioners and some of whom are retire persons 

 living on very small income, some whose earning power will never 

 permit them to earn enough for a decent standard of living, and it 

 was only for that purpose that we suggested the stamp plan could be 

 used both to carry out an eleemosynary undertaking and still remove 

 a great many of the surpluses. 



Mr. Pace. But the fact remains that you are recommending the 

 investment of Government funds in the purchase of surplus dairy 

 products to be given to the needy. 



Mr. HoLMAN. Yes; that fact remains. We have been favoring that 

 for several years. We deplore that we have in this great country of 

 ours a certain percentage of people who probably will never have the 

 earning power to buy for themselves enough at present high rates of 

 wages and the relatively high rates of commodities. 



Mr. Pace. Would it be a proper analysis to say that generally 

 speaking the Secretary's plan would permit all consumers, notwith- 

 standing their economic status, to enjoy the benefit of the Govern- 

 ment's expenditures while you would confine your plan to those who 

 actually are in need? 



Mr. Holmes. That is correct. 



Mr. Pace. In those instances there will be Government money. 



Mr. HoLMAN. And two different methods of doing it. 



Mr. Pace. Notwithstanding the distastefulness of the words, they 

 still involve Government subsidies. 



Mr. HoLMAN. Yes; it involves Government subsidies, but it does 

 not involve Government subsidies for labor. Just take an average 

 carpenter and tell him "We will bring your age down to $8 and day 

 and pay you the $12 in a subsidy," do you think he would take it? 



Mr. Pace. Is it your recommendation that the Government buy 

 the surplus and move it to the needy, or that the Government buy 

 the amount that the needy need? 



