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The definition of "disaster" is statutory. It is contained in section 

 3(k) of the Small Business Act. It is as follows: 'The term 'disaster' 

 means a sudden event which causes severe damage, including but 

 not limited to floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, fires, ex- 

 plosions, volcanoes, windstorms, landslides or mud slides, tidal 

 waves, ocean conditions resulting in the closure of customary fish- 

 ing waters, riots and civil disorders or other catastrophes, except 

 it does not include economic dislocation." 



The legislative history of the provision goes on to indicate very 

 clearly, particularly with respect to the fishing industry, that was 

 intended to cover natural occurrences such as the El Nino tide and 

 that the phrase "ocean conditions resulting from the closure of cus- 

 tomary fishing waters" was intended to cover such things as toxic 

 algae blooms, commonly known as red or brown tide. 



Mr. Jackson. If I can ask the Senator, because I really enjoyed 

 your remarks and understood them clearly, what is it in that statu- 

 tory language that, one, would determine — would make the appli- 

 cation of these loans applicable to fishermen in these counties? 



Mr. Tarr. Thank you for the question. Let me first again con- 

 gratulate you as well. In my first day in the Massachusetts House 

 of Representatives many years ago, I was asked by a senior mem- 

 ber to get a cup of coffee. He mistook me for a page. So, I can sym- 

 pathize with what you are facing today. 



The definition that the prior testimony refers to is an exact de- 

 scription of what is happening in the New England fisheries. By 

 very definition, we are losing recruitment, which means that year- 

 classes of fish are not coming through as quickly as we would like 

 them to. That may be attributable in part to overfishing, but I 

 think we all know there is a larger situation at work, in part due 

 to climatological changes. 



We do, in fact, have an ocean current that is well defined causing 

 a warming trend called the Gulf Stream. I think it precedes El 

 Nino in being identified. 



In addition to that, there is a situation that is taking place in 

 terms of predator stocks on Georges Bank that are consuming the 

 juveniles of the groundfish, as well as their spawn, not allowing 

 those fish, the groundfish in particular, to have recruitment and to 

 have year-classes. 



In addition to that, Mr. Chairman, there are changes in the bot- 

 tom where these fish spawn. Those changes make it very difficult 

 to have the kind of cover that the fish require in order to have 

 large year-classes and in order to reproduce in the way we like. 



In fact, Mr. Chairman, there has been some evidence produced 

 by the scientific folks that work for the New England Fisheries 

 Management Council that does suggest, as the secretary has re- 

 ferred to, that even if we stopped fishing altogether, that we would 

 still have a severe depletion problem as a result of climatological 

 changes and predation. 



What we are working on is still not as well defined as the limited 

 defense figures we have of other kinds of disasters and other cli- 

 matological changes. 



In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, I would also point out that as 

 pleased as we are to see the bipartisanship of this Subcommittee, 

 that I would also be remiss in not mentioning to you that we now 



