17 



have in Massachusetts something called the Massachusetts Fish- 

 eries Recovery Commission, which is intended to direct scientific 

 inquiry into these many causes in the face of this sudden crisis. 

 The secretary and the Governor will soon be making appointments 

 to that. 



I have to tell you that instrumental in the development of that 

 commission, and, for the record, Mr. Chairman, been my colleagues 

 from the majority party in Massachusetts, certainly Senator 

 Montigni and also Representatives Quinn, Strauss, Cabral, and 

 Verga. So, crises suddenly do bring people together, Mr. Chairman, 

 not only on the Subcommittee today, but also in Massachusetts. 



So I think that what the gentleman has described is tailor-made 

 to the situation that is before us, and we appreciate your insight 

 into that situation. 



Mr. Jackson. Madam Secretary, did you want to respond? 



Ms. Coxe. No. 



Mr. Jackson. Thank you very much. 



Mr. Chairman? 



Chairman Torkildsen [presiding]. Thank you very much, Con- 

 gressman Jackson, for your questions and for chairing the hearing. 



To go back to Mr. Kulik, I disagree very much with the SBA's 

 decision, to pick up on Mayor Tobey and Senator Tarr's comments. 

 It seems very much like the SBA is going out of its way to find a 

 way to say no. The SBA should be there to find a way to say yes. 



Without going into the specific appeals, is there anything at all 

 the SBA can be doing to help these fishing families, the over- 

 whelming majority of which are small businesses, and the over- 

 whelming majority of which in our area are going through a crisis? 

 I think no one can dispute that. 



What can the SBA do to help these families get through what is 

 going to, by conservative estimates, be a 5, 7, maybe even 10-year 

 period of these very onerous regulations and reduction in fishing 

 capability? 



Mr. Kulik. Mr. Chairman, you certainly have made your dis- 

 agreement with our decision evident today. However, we believe 

 our decision is based on very sound legal principles. 



I do appreciate the problems that the fishing industry in Massa- 

 chusetts is having. You know, of course — and you mention what the 

 Department of Commerce is doing — that the Small Business Ad- 

 ministration has a full range of regular business programs which 

 have been made available in Massachusetts for the fishing indus- 

 try. 



Unfortunately, however, these loan programs are bank guarantee 

 programs. These are not direct loan programs. 



We have contacted 40 specific banks in the New England area 

 regarding our efforts and asked them to please cooperate with us. 



We have not had much of a reaction from the banks. Unfortu- 

 nately, we cannot control that. The reasons we were given when we 

 asked, why there has been no activity on this front, were that the 

 bank did not want to write off any portion of its loans, they didn't 

 want to charge off anything for those that were in trouble. For 

 those not in trouble, the banks were perfectly happy, because the 

 terms of the loan were being met and payments were being made. 



