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Mr. Jackson. Let me thank the distinguished Ranking Member, 

 Mr. Poshard, for this opportunity once again. 



I am concerned, and I asked the chairman, maybe Mr. Kulik can 

 respond or certainly someone, Mr. Tarr or Mr. Tobey, how many 

 businesses are we actually talking about and the size of the loan 

 or request that is being sought? Can either one of you respond to 

 that? 



Mr. Kulik. I would defer to the representatives from Massachu- 

 setts and Gloucester. 



Mr. Jackson. The number of businesses that we are talking 

 about that have been affected by this? The size of the assistance? 



Mr. Tarr. We are going to defer to Paul, who does have that in- 

 formation at his disposal. 



Mr. Sisson. Thank you, Mr. Jackson. 



The answer to that question would be, we are probably talking 

 about roughly 2,000 small businesses as far as vessels in Massa- 

 chusetts that would be in need of loans. We currently have pro- 

 grams that we are trying to put together to work with vessels look- 

 ing for the long-term diversification of our industry which we feel 

 will give us a much stronger, more stable industry in the future, 

 than we are currently experiencing at the current time. 



The biggest needs are for transition purposes, for the loan pro- 

 gram that has been requested. In order for a business to be able 

 to take and refit their vessel, to change from being targeting pri- 

 marily to groundfish and going for alternative species, which we 

 have heard mentioned that we are marketing, they need to be able 

 to borrow working capital funds, because they have to take their 

 vessel out of fishing in order to make the changes. These are the 

 particulars that we feel would be important for this program. 



Mr. Jackson. The size of the loan that we are looking at? 



Mr. Sisson. I don't believe that we came up with a specific 

 amount as far as size of loans, but I would anticipate that loans 

 of this nature would probably be running in the $10,000 to $15,000 

 range. 



Mr. Jackson. Thank you. 



Mr. Kulik. Mr. Jackson, in addition to the 2,000 vessels that 

 were mentioned, there are a number — and I don't know the num- 

 ber, perhaps some of the other witnesses would — of shore-side busi- 

 nesses that would be affected too and that might have to be in- 

 volved in some kind of change. 



But I would also like to mention that the Economic Injury Loan 

 Program is a limited program, and it was not designed nor would 

 it provide funds for any business to go into a completely different 

 business. It was designed to permit a business to pay the bills, its 

 ordinary and necessary expenses, that it could have paid had there 

 not been a disaster, but cannot pay now to tide it over to the time 

 that it is once again profitable in its business. 



This is not a loan program for expansion, for buying new equip- 

 ment, or for anything of that type. 



Mr. Jackson. I am going to yield back the time to the Ranking 

 Member, Mr. Poshard, but I just want to add that it occurs to me 

 when we talk about 2,000 vessels and some of these communities, 

 we are also probably talking about the impact on local banks, the 

 impact on the entire local economy, not just these small businesses. 



