and I see some heads shaking, so 15 curies and you are saying 6 

 billion curies is what the problem is in Russia? 



Dr. Yablokov. Yes. A more visible unit for radioactive fallout is 

 Chernobyl. All Chernobyl fallout, it was 50 million curies — 50 mil- 

 lion curies. It was all Chernobyl catastrophe, and 50 million, it is 

 enough to cover all the globe, practically all the globe. You can 

 reach Chernobyl fallout even in this room just now. So 50 million. 

 We have at least 6 billion curies. 



Mr. Spratt. Is there any effort or program now in Russia to cor- 

 rect this problem, to clean it up? 



Dr. Yablokov. Yes. I just mentioned, we have a huge program 

 which passed through the Government October 23 and signed by 

 my Premier Chernomyrdin, a Federal program about how to deal 

 with radioactive waste and spent nuclear fuel between 1996 and 

 2005. But I mentioned the money which is allocated for this pro- 

 gram, only about $1 billion, no more, but the problem costs, really 

 costs hundreds of billion dollars. It is a visible step but it is abso- 

 lutely not enough. It is only a first step, maybe the intention to 

 solve the problem, not solving. 



Mr. Spratt. Mr. Bryn, could I ask you also your sources of infor- 

 mation, where you developed the data that you presented? 



Mr. Bryn. We had the same problem as Dr. Yablokov explains. 

 We really talk about that we have three phases as far as dealing 

 with these problems are concerned. The first phase is the gathering 

 of information, the second is making the priorities, and the third 

 is the operative one. 



By and large now, in some of the areas, we have a pretty good 

 view of the situation. As I mentioned, the expeditions we have had 

 to the dumping sites around Novaja Zemlja. We feel we know what 

 is there. We can then on the dumping side, at least, start to make 

 priorities. 



Where we lack information is obviously how the situation is in 

 the northern fleet shipyards and also in the facilities inland. There, 

 new information is coming to hand. , We know the general picture 

 that it is very difficult as far as the storage is concerned. We know 

 that the number of submarines that is easily counted and so on. 

 So one knows quite a lot, and probably enough to start a sort of 

 international program which we feel is necessary. 



But, as I said, I think it has to be an ongoing process to gather 

 information while at the same time we make some priorities and 

 start operational work. As I said, I am happy to say that at least 

 Norway and the United States are cooperating on some start, real- 

 ly very small projects, but they give great promise for the future, 

 not least in getting used to dealing with the Russian authorities, 

 both centrally and locally, which is tremendously important, be- 

 cause we cannot force cooperation on the Russians. We have to 

 stimulate the sort of cooperation, and I am particularly talking 

 about the military establishment. Thank you. 



Mr. Spratt. Thank you very much. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Weldon. Thank you. 



Mr. Hastings. 



Mr. Hastings. I just have one question of Mr. Bryn. You talk 

 about the summit next year in Moscow. What countries will be par- 



