45 



stand that we also can draw predictive models scientifically as to 

 what areas may cause the most problems in the future? 



Mr. Bryn. Thank you. I partly agree with you, because we have 

 those data more and more, not fully fledged perhaps yet, but as far 

 as the present dumping is concerned, I think we are starting to get 

 the data we need. What is needed for that is constant monitoring 

 of the situation, that the situation is stable. 



Where we do not have the data is the waste, including the de- 

 commissioned submarines which rest with the northern fleet, with 

 the military, and I am talking now particularly about the Kola Pe- 

 ninsula problems. There, we lack the data. TTiere, much is based 

 on work like what is being done by Bellona, other groups, what we 

 get out through official meetings, what Dr. Yablokov can tell us, 

 but we do not really have scientific confirmed data for these areas 

 and that is why we have felt that this is such a huge problem. 



It involves so many structures and it is so much linked to high 

 politics, really, that it is an area for the G-7 leaders at the summit 

 in Moscow to start the sort of processes which will lead to the data. 



Mr. Kennedy. Let me just interrupt there. Is it that there is not 

 data that is being disclosed? You are saying that is a problem, not 

 everyone has come up with where the problems are on an objective 

 basis, not scientific here, just on objective data of where the prob- 

 lem is? In your military and ours, there has not been a forthcoming 

 set of hard data as to where the problems are, is that the problem? 



Mr. Bryn. That is absolutely correct. 



Mr. Kennedy. All right. 



Mr. Bryn. Let me add one thing. We have started a very inter- 

 esting cooperation through what I call the pilot study under the 

 North Atlantic Cooperation Council, the NACC. I think everybody 

 has seen the reports which have come out of the first phase and 

 are quite impressed with the ability to draw in experts both from 

 the United States Navy and from the Russian Navy, and the sec- 

 ond phase will take another couple of years to be on the table. I 

 think we will bring some very interesting information out. 



But in order also to get the right people to participate in that 

 sort of work is absolutely necessary that the order come from the 

 very top, and that, again to return to my favorite them, that if the 

 G-7 Russia summit in April can start those processes, I think we 

 are on the right track. 



Mr. Kennedy. It would seem to me, before anything else can 

 take place, we need to do an inventory. We cannot determine what 

 the problem is unless we have an inventory. So afterwards, I will 

 look forward to hearing the other panelists. Once you get the in- 

 ventory, then we can move on to determine to what extent these 

 are problems and what extent they are not, and then what tech- 

 nologies to use to mitigate these problems and what technologies 

 are not cost effective. 



Mr. Chairman, I look forward to continuing this with the other 

 witnesses. 



Mr. Weldon. I thank the gentleman. His questions are excellent. 

 During our second panel and third panel, we will talk about some 

 of the things our agencies are doing to cooperate. I know there are 

 some initiatives underway right now, both classified and unclassi- 



