17 



and women-owned businesses for participation in the SBIR Pro- 

 gram. 



Mr. Fields. In the area of research and development? 



Mr. Neal. Yes, in the area of research and development. 



Mr. Fields. How many do you have today? 



Mr. Neal. I do not have that number available with me right 

 now, but I can provide that to you at a later date. 



Mr. Fields. But you do have minority companies participating? 



Mr. Neal. Yes, we do. But we recognize it is under-represented. 



Mr. Fields. The gentleman mentioned many of the big compa- 

 nies subcontract because the rules provide that you have got to 

 have 500 employees or less. How often do you see that occur, where 

 a minority or a small business receives the contract and then sub- 

 contracts with one of the bigger firms? 



Mr. Neal. I do not have the numbers with me, but that is a very, 

 very rare occurrence, because what you will find in most instances 

 is that the size of the small minority firms are such and the types 

 of projects that they are involved in, because of their nature, the 

 characteristics of the firm, they would not get a very large contract 

 where they could subcontract out a great deal and it would still be 

 somewhat profitable for them. 



So what we find is situations where the contracts and the size 

 of those contracts sort of fit the nature and the size of the firm. 

 Most of the minority firms that are participating are very small. 



Mr. Fields. If I may ask the gentleman, I think the gentleman 

 made mention of the large companies subcontracting. Do you have 

 any information you want to share in terms of examples that have 

 taken place in the past or presently taking place? 



Mr. Rezendes. No, I do not have any examples, but in your in- 

 terest of minorities, I believe across the Federal agencies roughly 

 10 percent of the SBIR awardees are minority or disadvantaged 

 small businesses. The National Science Foundation and the De- 

 partment of Defense has conducted national conferences for SBIR, 

 three per year over the past 10 to 15 years. There have been sig- 

 nificant sessions at these meetings over the last several years spe- 

 cifically designed to increase participation of minoriW businesses. 

 Special sessions for outreach at all three of these conferences, once 

 per year. 



Dr. Norwood. I would like to add that I think at NASA we have 

 shown that we are able to include the minority and women-owned 

 business in our SBIR Program. As a matter of fact, over the last 

 3 years for 1992, 1993, and 1994, we have shown about a 20 per- 

 cent participation rate, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little 

 less, in minority and women-owned businesses in the SBIR Pro- 

 gram that are, of course, awarded on merit. 



In addition to that, I personally have attended many conferences 

 that have been held in the Midwest to provide information to mi- 

 nority and women-owned businesses on how to participate in 

 NASA's SBIR Program. We have done the same thing for STTR 

 with providing information to university associations, historically 

 black colleges, universities and minority institutions to get the in- 

 formation out so they can participate on the basis of sound infor- 

 mation. I think we have got a very good record. 



