18 



In addition, I would like to add a little comment based on the 

 question by Congressman Thompson. We also at NASA have found 

 that in our high technology programs that small businesses do pro- 

 vide a major advantage and new technology in completing our mis- 

 sion, both aeronautics and space missions. Quite often, the small 

 businesses are participating as second and third tier partners with 

 the large firms in providing the technological solutions we need to 

 complete our mission. 



Mr. Fields. How many small businesses do you all do business 

 with? Do you have that information? 



Dr. Norwood. I can get that information and provide it for the 

 record. But just out of the SBIR Program, we know that we have 

 about 97 awards for the fiscal year 1994 program in Phase I, out 

 of a total of 412 for minority and women-owned businesses. 



Mr. Fields. When vou say minority and women-owned business, 

 what percentage would go to women and what percentage would go 

 to other minorities of that 97? 



Dr. Norwood. The information I have here, if I could just select 

 the fiscal year 1994 year for just Phase I, since we have not done 

 the Phase II, about a little more than 12 or 13 percent has gone 

 to minority firms, small businesses and about 7 percent would go 

 to women-owned businesses. So, it is about a two to one ratio. But 

 overall, if you consider into participation of minority and women- 

 owned businesses for 1994, it is over 20 percent. 



Mr. Fields. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Rezendes. I was just going to shed a little light on the per- 

 centage of minority and disadvantaged firms. In 1992, we issued a 

 report looking at what percentage of the success rate to Phase III 

 commercialization of projects and we looked between 1984 and 

 1987. At that point, there were around 10 percent of the awards 

 made at Phase II were to disadvantaged and minority firms. 



Mr. Fields. When you say 10 percent disadvantaged and minor- 

 ity, that includes women, does it not? 



Mr. Rezendes. I believe so. No, it does not. 



Mr. Fields. It does not. But you have a breakdown in terms of 

 how many women-owned firms receive this? 



Mr. Rezendes. No, sir, I do not. 



Mr. Fields. I have one final question to Mr. Little. What is your 

 appreciation of the program? Have you found any problems in the 

 industry with this program? 



Mr. Little. As I remarked, sometimes the topics are fairly eso- 

 teric which makes them difficult to commercialize. So, my rec- 

 ommendation would be, as we emphasized commercialization to 

 bring thorn back closer to Earth and that would be one rec- 

 ommendation. 



Mr. Fields. What do you mean closer to Earth? 



Mr. Little. For instance, a lot of research efforts are in the basic 

 research side where you are studying things which take a long time 

 to apply. So, if more emphasis were put on engineering topics and 

 applications' topics, you would be closer to the marketplace. 



Mr. Fields. My time is up. I thank the gentleman. 



Chairman ToRKiLDSEN. Thank you. Congressman Fields. To fol- 

 low on a few of the points already raised. The disconnect that you 

 see between research and commercial application is that entirely in 



