22 



have to review 10 times as many applications as actual awards 

 that you grant? 



Dr. Norwood. For this most recent fiscal year in terms of just 

 dollar value throughout the NASA Program, it is about $3 million 

 is required to administer the program. So, my percentage was 

 based on continuing the level of support we have now which is an 

 excellent level of support, but continuing that as the program con- 

 tinues. 



Dr. Barish. At DOE this year we have a $70 million SBIR budg- 

 et and a $3.5 million STTR budget. That is supported by four full- 

 time Federal permanent employees and a support services contract 

 of about $300,000 per year. 



Chairman TORKILDSEN. Thank you. Following with that, Mr. 

 Glover or Mr. Neal, whoever is best able to answer that. What is 

 the SEA cost for administering the program right now? 



Mr. Neal. The actual figures for 1994 is that the total budget al- 

 located to the SBIR or STTR Program office was $981,000 and we 

 had 11 personnel assigned to administer the program. For 1995, 

 the figure is $957,000 and we will have 9 individuals assigned to 

 administer the program. 



Chairman ToRKiLDSEN. Before we go to another 



Mr. Rezendes. Before we leave this point, I do not think from 

 my perspective I want to argue whether, in fact, they need the 

 money or do not need money for administration. I guess the only 

 thought I would want to leave with you is that if you are going to 

 use it as a percentage of the program, you are going to lose sight 

 over how the money is being spent within that. If you can afford 

 to spend the money as a set aside, you can afford to also spend the 

 money up front. The more you have identified it and made con- 

 scious decisions in the budget as to what it is being used for, the 

 more easy it is to provide the oversight that Congress needs to run 

 these funds. 



Dr. Norwood. I just wanted to make a clarification. In the num- 

 ber I gave you that is a NASA-wide number. So, it is not just head- 

 quarters. 



Chairman TORKILDSEN. Understood. Thank you. Any other com- 

 ments on the subject before we move on to another one? Another 

 interesting item from the GAO report was the possibility of a scam, 

 and any time you have a Government award program you run the 

 risk of someone attempting to turn the program into a scam. It is 

 extremely serious and it is something that we all have to take dili- 

 gent steps to see it does not happen. Would anyone on the panel 

 like to offer either steps that as an individual agency can be taken 

 or what coordination is necessary? Mr. Neal. 



Mr. Neal. Mr. Chairman, what we have looked at is that recog- 

 nize that there is this possibility, and approximately a year ago we 

 began developing a real time computerized system that would allow 

 the agencies to look at what awards had been made at other agen- 

 cies. The implementation of that computerized system is moving 

 along well and we would expect very soon to have that available 

 to the agencies, so that they could verify this. 



Chairman TORKILDSEN. You are developing that or you have that 

 in place now? 



