168 CONFERENCE ON NATURAL BEAUTY 



scenic water recreational landmarks and be safeguarded from any 

 public or private projects and programs that might destroy their 

 beauty. Among areas in California with which we are deeply con- 

 cerned are San Francisco Bay and Lake Tahoe. 



We suggest that criteria for determining the public interest in all 

 major water areas be established for the immediate guidance of 

 local, State, and Federal agencies. 



WILLIAM MOORE. Engineers have not fared very well here. I 

 think that some of this criticism is no doubt justified, but I also 

 think it is well to remember that engineers design what the people 

 and clients are willing to pay for. Mrs. Owings made some refer- 

 ence to that this morning. Even the Army Engineers, I think, 

 would be glad to design facilities which had the qualities that we 

 would like. Being a boater and liking to go up the Sacramento 

 River, I endorse the comments about the Sacramento River. How- 

 ever, what is needed is some basis for criteria. 



Every project, even a beautiful one, must have a price tag. We 

 need some way and I think this is not impossible to assess or ap- 

 praise a budget for the incremental values that we would like to see 

 built into these projects. I think this can be done on the basis of an 

 objective appraisal as to the over-all impact in the area and in the 

 community. This is not easy, and it cannot be done precisely, but I 

 think it would be worth the study. 



Mrs. BOLTON. Will the gentleman yield? 



I would like to say that I would be reluctant to agree if it were 

 always based on cost. The price is not the ultimate thing. Beauty 

 is the ultimate. 



SAM ZISMAN. I would like to make a partial response to this and a 

 proposal or suggestion. 



One of the problems involved is not the absolute cost of any given 

 individual program, but the way funds are available or used among 

 a number of programs. This seems to me one of the hurts of our 

 present approach. It seems to me that somehow we have got to 

 find methods, approaches, means to make use of the funds which are 

 made available, both public and private, to do the greatest job pos- 

 sible, not any particular separate program. Part of the difficulty, 

 for example, with the programs of the Corps of Engineers is that 

 they establish their basis of cost and benefits within very narrow 

 limits. They do not take into account the problems of amenities 



