322 Churchill's Prison Reforms t I 9 10 



had put it in the workhouse, and who had been given two months' 

 hard labour for deserting it, and about abuses he had discovered in a 

 reformatory. He talked also about public executions. He is in favour 

 of capital punishment, but, while thinking executions cannot be made 

 a spectacle for hooligans, will see to it that relations and friends shall 

 be allowed to be present. This in connection with what I wrote the 

 other day in the ' Observer.' 



" He then got on his travels in the Greek Islands and the Sea of 

 Marmora, where he has been yachting for the last two months. He 

 was immensely pleased with the Island of Rhodes and its defensive 

 works. At Constantinople he had stayed four days, and had been 

 taken to see the new Sultan, but had found him uninteresting; indeed 

 gaga. Djavid Pasha had shown him about, and he had talked with 

 several very intelligent Young Turks ; also with Bieberstein, the Ger- 

 man Ambassador, of whose ability he had formed a high opinion. 

 The Germans had got the better of our diplomacy there. He had 

 brought away a great sympathy with the Young Turks, and was all 

 for them being encouraged and supported. I told him that I had been 

 asked to advise the Ottoman Government as to its policy, and inquired 

 what his advice to them would be. Would he advise them to join 

 the Triple Alliance ? He said : ' I should advise them, while working 

 up their army and making it efficient, to keep out of all wars for 

 five years and get their finances in order. As to alliances, I should 

 advise them to remain in the position of the courted party rather than 

 of one actually engaged.' I asked : ' Would it not give them a 

 stronger position to join the Triple Alliance openly? If it is only a 

 secret understanding they might find themselves betrayed.' He said: 

 ' Perhaps.' I gathered from him that he was well aware of the mis- 

 takes made by our diplomacy at Constantinople, but he excused these 

 by saying that we were hampered by our position in Egypt. 



" We then argued the whole Egyptian question, and with Philip's 

 help, I think we produced considerable effect on him, though still he 

 declared the impossibility of evacuation. Public opinion in England 

 would never consent to it. We should hold on to Egypt as we hold on 

 to India. It was not that it brought us any advantage but it was im- 

 possible to go back on what we had undertaken, a necessity of Em- 

 pire. The fate of Egypt would be decided by the issue of the coming 

 war with Germany. He used, in fact, all the old arguments ; neverthe- 

 less, I think, he is shaken about it. Philip staggered him by asserting 

 that the land of the Delta was being ruined by over watering and that 

 the rural administration was bad. ' One thing,' he said to me privately, 

 ' I can tell you. There will be no more talk of the Suez Canal Con- 

 vention.' He asked me what I thought of Gorst, and said they were 

 going to support him. ' As to the Suez Convention,' he said, ' there 



