Mar. 24, 1904. 



TH£ AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. 



221 



the section, so I have a starter on all four sides, and the 

 center all filled up solid so the bees have no hole to get 

 through, and build out from each side, and when they are 

 finished I have a section all finished. 



Dr. Miller — The whole section? 



Mr. Wheeler — Yes, the whole section. I let down four 

 halves of the section, then I lay on the sheet of foundation 

 and lay on the other four halves, put in the super, and take 

 another and do the same way. My sections are filled full. 



Dr. Miller — Is there ever any sagging? 



Mr. Wheeler — No, and I have never had one injured. 

 They are always perfect, and they won't vary half an ounce 

 in weight. 



Dr. Miller — You would be in fashion in England. 



Mr. Kannenburg — Don't that spoil the looks of the sec- 

 tions after they are filled? Looks kind of split off, and you 

 can't finish it off. 



Mr. Wheeler — That's against it. It leads to another 

 point : People see the foundation, and they maybe think it is 

 manufactured. That's the greatest objection. 



Mr. Niver — How do you fasten those two halves of 

 the section? Do you let the bees do that? 



Mr. Wheeler — Clamp them together. 



Dr. Miller — The foundation does it. 



Mr. Niver — They will hold until you ship? 



Mr. Wheeler — The bees do that. After they are in the 

 hive 24 hours they will hold together perfectly. 



Pres. York — It will do it all right. I have seen it many 

 times. 



Mr. Chapman — How do you split the sections? 



Mr. Wheeler — The factory does that. I buy them that 

 way. 



ARE FULL- WEIGHT SECTIONS W.^NTED? 



Mr. Longsdon — Do we want the sections full? I have 

 seen advertised here in Chicago, "Honey wanted, but we 

 don't want it to weigh over so many ounces." I would like 

 to hear from some man who does know how full we want the 

 sections filled. 



Pres. York — Do we want full-weight sections? 



Mr. Niver — I have quite a lot of experience right there, 

 and it is my experience that the most popular weight to sell 

 to the grocer is i2 ounces, and that would go in a section 

 .■?5^x4J4xi;i inches. It weighs exactly I3 ounces full — fancy 

 honey. 



Pres. York — Now, Mr. Muth, I think you would better 

 answer the question. Do you want "full" things down in 

 Cincinnati, or not? 



Mr. Muth — I have the honor to have a personal ac- 

 quaintance and friendship with Frank Rauchfuss, and I think 

 he is the best-posted honey-man in the world. I also had the 

 pleasure of his company for about three days when he was 

 in Cincinnati some two or three years ago, and a circular they 

 issue on the grading of honey, and how they adopt their style 

 meets my notion to the dot. They favor the 4%x4%xlJ^ 

 section, open top and bottom, and 24 sections to the case- 

 fancy, of course, is always the best. A 24-section case should 

 weigh from 22 to 23 pounds, and no more than 24 pounds. 

 We all go to the limit even if we do advertise long-tongued 

 queens ! The retail grocer or the general public is the one 

 that we cater to. What we like may not be wanted by other 

 people. If I want to buy a pound I want 16 ounces. When 

 I sell a man a pound I sell him 16 ounces for a pound, and 

 when I tell a man I will do it, I will do it. A retail grocer 

 will often telephone me, "What have you got?" "I have some- 

 thing that will strike you." He wants a case of honey that 

 has 24 sections and that weighs 22 pounds. If I tell him I 

 have a case of 24 sections that weigh 25J4 pounds he will 

 say, "I don't want it." I have that demonstrated to me right 

 along. A man in Iowa sent me about $275.00 worth. I had 

 forgotten to mention when I told him to let his honey come 

 that it must average less than a pound to a section, or it 

 should not average more than 23 or 24 pounds to the case, 

 but he let it come, and it all averages 25 and 26 pounds to the 

 case. Well, there I am. I am looking for a buyer. I would 

 like to sell it for what I paid for it. I believe they are all 

 like that. I don't care; if a retail grocer wants light weight, 

 give it to him; or if he v;ants pounds, give it to him. If he 

 wants light weights, I have it; and if he wants pounds I have 

 it; but the majority want to make a little money, and they 

 don't make it anyway because they cut prices. They want 

 to get the trade. If they are light weights, about 14 ounces, 

 that strikes a man all right. They look like a pound and they 

 can get 20 cents a piece. 



Dr. Miller — Why do they make any more money on one 

 than on the other? 



Mr. Muth— Say I buy it by the pound, and I sell to the 

 retail grocer by the pound, and they generally sell by the 

 piece. There is more short-weight honey on the market than 

 pounds, and whenever you have heavy-weight honey on the 

 market you have a proposition. The gentleman that sold me 

 this honey is a very fine one, but if I had known that the 

 honey was heavy weight I wouldn't have wanted it for three 

 cents a pound less than I paid for it, because it is a drug on 

 the market. 



Dr. Miller^ — If they all weigh alike, why is it that one will 

 bring a better price than the other? If a section weighs I'/i 

 pounds, wouldn't they be willing to pay for lyi pounds? 



Mr. Muth — No, sir. There are 24 sections in a case, and 

 the case weighs 25H pounds. The retail grocer will figure 

 out each section will cost him say sixteen cents a pound ; if 

 under this weight you could sell for 18 cents a pound, and 

 make about 40 cents on the case ; but if he has to pay 18 

 cents a pound he will have to sell it for 20 cents, and a lady 

 will come in and say, "You sell that frame of honey for 20 

 cents? I can get all I want for 18 cents." Your.= might be 

 so big, and the other so small, it is the same thing, I assure 

 you. Life is too short to talk with people. Give to them just 

 exactly what they want, and let them alone. [Applause.] 



Dr. Miller — I would like to ask : These people that buy 

 light-weight sections, do they think they are getting full- 

 weight? 



Mr. Muth — No, sir. We arc not talking about weights at 

 all. Now, mind you, I am no retailer. If I see a customer 

 come up to buy a pound of honey I am astonished, because 

 none come to me. I am a wholesaler. I am taking the posi- 

 tion of the retailer, and I am catering to the retail grocery 

 trade. That's what I suppose you want to know. 



Dr. Miller — If I have a 24-section case that weighs 24 

 pounds can I get as much a pound for that as if it weighed 

 22 pounds to the case? 



Mr. Muth — Yes, that will go all right. 

 Dr. Miller. — Same thing? 



Mr. Muth — This man who sent me the $275.00 worth of 

 honey gets just as much from me, but I wish he had his 

 honey and I had my money. How am I going to get rid of it? 

 I have to stick it on to some fellow that doesn't know any- 

 thing about it. I am selling by the weight. He is not going 

 to make as much. Maybe I am a little bit too frank with you, 

 gentlemen. 



Pres. York — We are not used to it in Chicago! Look out 

 for him I 



Dr. Miller — Never mind him. I am from the country. 

 I want to know about that case of honey, the one that's light 

 weight. The light-weight section will bring just as much 

 money as the section that weighs 17 ounces because the peo- 

 ple think that they are all just alike! 



Mr. Muth— That doesn't give the situation. Say a 24- 

 section case of honey will weigh, 22 pounds. We will say 

 at 15 cents a pound, that would make $3.30. Now divide that 

 by 24 — about 14 cents a piece. He will get 18 or 20 cents for 

 it, and he is going to make a nice profit. But if his case of 

 honey weighs 25 pounds, he has to pay me 15 cents a pound. 

 A retail grocer is not a broad-gauged man, and competition 

 drives him to see money, and he will hesitate a whole lot be- 

 fore he will take an over-weight case of honey when a short- 

 weight case is presented to him, because it always sells by 

 the section. 



Dr. Miller — You get just as much for one section as for 

 the other? If a grocer held up two sections before a woman 

 and said, "There is one that weighs 14 or 15 ounces, and here 

 is another that weighs a pound," would she give the same 

 for one as for the other? 

 Mr. Muth— No. 



Dr. Miller — You have to fool Iicr? 

 Mr. Muth— No. 



Mr. Wheeler — The grocery man don't handle both kinds, 

 don't you know ? 



Mr. Muth — The dealer caters to the wants of the retail 

 grocer, or to the demand. 



Dr. Miller— The grocer wants a light-weight section. 

 Now, does the woman want the light-weight section? And 

 what is she going to get? Which do you say, does she or 

 doesn't she? 



Mr. Muth — You can go to any one of these grocers and 

 ask them what kind of coffee they sell the most of. Do they 

 sell the most Mocha and Java, or do they sell the most of 

 Arbuckles? 



