Oct. 24, 1901. 



AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL 



679 



looked in occasionally. I noticed, with 

 that colony, that had so many old bees 

 in the field, it began rearing brood 

 much earlier than any of the others, 

 and in a little while they were dead. 

 It was a condition of exhausted vital- 

 ity, as you have just said. They get 

 in a hurry about rearing brood to see 

 if they could not possibly save the 

 colony. 



Pres. Root — The remedy, it would 

 seem, would be implied from the dis- 

 cussion. It would be protection, proper 

 feeding, food given at the right time ; 

 and those are conditions that we can 

 very well meet. 



Dr. Miller — If there is anything like 

 correctness in my diagnosis, then one 

 thing in the remedy would be to have 

 a large quantity of young bees in the 

 fall, and anything that would tend to 

 that— but I confess that I do not know 

 whether my diagnosis is right. 



Pres. Root — Proper feeding, proper 

 protection, food properlj- given — and 

 when I say protection I mean in double- 

 walled hives or indoors, a proper in- 

 door repository with sufficient ventila- 

 tion. All these things may help to 

 offset unusual conditions that we can 

 not control in the way of weather, and 

 the cause suggests the remedy. 



J. S. Barb, of Ohio — I had experience 

 in spring dwindling, and I find that 

 double-walled hives are not very much 

 better than single ones. As a general 

 thing you will have a lot of old bees to 

 start with in the fall, and that condi- 

 tion prevents them from rearing brood 

 in the spring. 



Pres. Root — I have noticed that the 

 colonies were liable not to get in con- 

 dition without protection. Last win- 

 ter, by oversight, we left out 10 small 

 colonies without double walls, and 

 nearly every one of them got down to 

 a handful. Those that were right 

 alongside of them in double walls got 

 through all right. It all depends upon 

 what we understand by disease. If we 

 take Mr. Abbott's definition of abnor- 

 mal condition, then it is a disease. 



Dr. Miller — Suppose you had a col- 

 ony with nothing but drones in it, 

 would you call that a disease ? 



Mr. Abbott — A bad one, worse than 

 a convention with no women. 



Dr. Miller — How many think that 

 spring dwindling is a disease ? 



Pres. Root — Let us have a show of 

 hands. How many think spring 

 dwindling is a disease ? Now, how 

 many think it is not ? Evidently the 

 convention doesn't think it is a dis- 

 ease. 



DISINFECTING FOUI,-BROODY HIVES. 



■' Is it best to disinfect foul-broody 

 hives ?" 



Dr. Mason — Yes, it is just as impor- 

 tant to disinfect a hive as it is to dis- 

 infect foul honey. 



Wm. McEvoy, of Ontario — Why not 

 burn it up ? 



Dr. Mason — It doesn't pay. It is 

 cheaper to disinfect it. Understand 

 me, the question is, "a foul-broody 

 hive." 



Pres. Root — The question as I under- 

 stand it implies a diseased hive in 

 which there have been bees that have 

 had foul brood, that naturally was the 

 intention of the question. 



Dr. Miller — Whatever the intention 

 may have been, I think that Dr. Mason 

 raises a good point there, and there is 

 a prior question to be answered. When 



a colony of foul-broody bees has been 

 in a hive, is that hive always a foul- 

 broody hi ve ? that is the point he wants 

 raised. 



Pres. Root — Is a hive that has con- 

 tained bees that have had the foul- 

 brood disease necessarily a foul-broody 

 hive ? 



Dr. Mason — I can answer that just 

 as easily by saying no. 



Mr. Kluck - According to Mr. France, 

 the foul brood inspector of Wisconsin, 

 he claims that a foul-broody bee in a 

 hive would make it necessary to disin- 

 fect that hive. He gave us to under- 

 stand in our bee-convention of north- 

 ern Illinois that that was so. 



Mr. McEvoy — It is not possible. Un- 

 derstand, I have thousands of experi- 

 ence in the test cases for pretty nearly 

 25 years, and I have never had a single 

 old hive disinfected in any way. 



Mr. Abbott — Wouldn't it be a good 

 idea if we would bring out exactly 

 what foul brood is, and what is the 

 nature of the disease, and where it 

 manifests itself? If it is a germ, un- 

 der what condition is that germ devel- 

 oped ? That is, where do they locate ? 

 We know that the germ of tuberculosis 

 locates itself in some of the glands of 

 the human body. Now, let us get an 

 answer fron Mr. McEvoy, or some one 

 else that has had experience with foul 

 brood. I never had any experience but 

 once. I know from scientific investi- 

 gation that it is a germ. Now, where 

 is that germ developed ? Let these 

 people who do not understand the the- 

 ory of foul brood see why it should not 

 get into the hive. 



Mr. McEvoy — This man has asked 

 one of the most important questions 

 that I have ever heard put in my life. 

 Honey, to become diseased, must first 

 be stored in the stain-marked cells, 

 that is, a cell where the foul matter 

 has dried down, or where the bees are 

 making room for more honey, when 

 they move the honey from an unfilled 

 cell to cells not finished ; but when 

 honey is gathered from the fields and 

 stored side bj- side with these stain- 

 marked cells, the honey in the next 

 cell is sound. It is the only possible 

 way to spread.it. Now, take combs 

 from a diseased colony, I don't care 

 how badly it may be affected, if the 

 honey is stored in these new combs 

 that never had brood in, and extracted, 

 and the combs given back to the bees 

 when they are clean, these combs can 

 be used in any hive in the world and 

 not give disease. 



Mr. Abbott^Now, then, germs ap- 

 pear in two conditions, the active or 

 germ condition, and the sporadic con- 

 dition. A germ, when it is active, can 

 be destroyed — I might say in the egg 

 condition. Now. is the germ of foul 

 brood in the egg condition in this dry 

 cell, or is it in the sporadic condition 

 and carried out with the honey and 

 developed with the honey that is put 

 into this cell wlien it is in that condi- 

 tion ? Is it practically a germ dormant 

 in that cell and can not carry or com- 

 municate itself to another cell, and 

 can only be imparted to another cell 

 by honey being put on to it, and such 

 a condition created as will hatch the 

 egg and thus spread it out ? 



Mr. MciCvoy i >r that honey moved 

 to another cell and spoil it. As far as 

 I ever went, I know that the honey 

 falling from these cells will give the 

 disease. 



Mr. Abbott — Now, then, if that spore, 

 as the scientific men would call it, is 

 placed in another cell, evidently it will 

 develop. If that spore was lodged on 

 the side of a hive, there would not be 

 any possible condition by which that 

 spore would develop on the side of the 

 hive. If it would, why, then, you 

 would have to change your answer? 



Sidney S. Sleeper, of New York — 

 Now. are these germs vegetable or ani- 

 mal ? In speaking of spores, that 

 would indicate that they were vegeta- 

 ble germs; in speaking of eggs, that 

 would indicate that they were animal 

 germs. 



Mr. Abbott — I simply wish to say 

 that I used the word egg so that those 

 people who haven't spent 25 years 

 studying science will know what I 

 mean. 



O. L. Hershiser, of New York— Can 

 this dried matter move itself ? What I 

 mean is, that when the bees are moved 

 from diseased cells, then one honey is 

 diseasing the other; but as far as it 

 going out from these cells through the 

 hive to enter other cells, I do not think 

 it is possible. 



Dr. Mason — What do you mean by 

 its going out ? 



Mr. Hershiser — What I mean is, that 

 it would sort of rise and go through 

 the colony. 



Pres. Root — What he means is, 

 whether the disease would pass through 

 the hive from one cell to another. 



Mr. McEvo)- — It does not do that. 



Dr. Mason — I don't believe it does. 



Dr. Miller — I want to confess that 

 the President at one time straightened 

 me out on that. I had gotten it into 

 my head that these things were ani- 

 mals, and that they were eggs. 



Mr. Abbott — Germs are animals, 

 sometimes. 



Dr. Mason — Are foul-bood germs ani- 

 mals ? 



Mr. Abbott — I don't think anybody 

 in the house knows. 



Dr. Miller— I think if we talk of 

 them as seeds there will be less danger 

 of misapprehension. Suppose the 

 spores had gotten upon the sides of a 

 hive. Now, if those spores were there 

 in connection with honey, and the bees 

 would take that honey, then you might 

 get the disease from that hive, but I 

 can't conceive of it in any other way. 

 If there are spores there on the sides of 

 the hive the bees are not going to take 

 them up in any way. I understand Mr. 

 McEvoy to hold that view, and it seems 

 to me that that ought to make it pretty 

 clear; and I confess to you that I never 

 saw it as clearly as I do tonight. It 

 makes me see more clearly than I ever 

 did before, why he insists upon it in 

 opposition to the views of a great many 

 practical men, that it is not necessary 

 to cleanse the hive, because if the 

 spores are there — if the bacilli are 

 there — they are going to die, aren't 

 they, Mr. Benton ? 



Frank Benton, of District of Colum- 

 bia — Not necessarily; the spores might 

 stay there and retain sufficient life to 

 develop. But there is no bee going to 

 take a spore from a dry hive and take 

 it where it will grow. 



Pres. Root — The spores are in an in- 

 active state; the bacilli are in an active 

 state. 



Mr. Hershiser;— I have frequently, 

 in working around a hive, spilled a 

 good deal of honey and it has run down 

 the sides of the hive. Suppose these 



