WALKS AND TALKS WITH TOLSTOI-MARCH, 1894 87 



in his opinion controls the universe ; that there are three 

 stages in religious development: first, the childhood of 

 nations, when man thinks of the whole universe as cre 

 ated for him and centering in him ; secondly, the maturity 

 of nations, the time of national religions, when each 

 nation believes that all true religion centers in it, the 

 Jews and the English, he said, being striking examples ; 

 and, finally, the perfected conception of nations, when 

 man has the idea of fulfilling the will of the Supreme 

 Power and considers himself an instrument for that pur 

 pose. He went on to say that in every religion there are 

 two main elements, one of deception and one of devotion, 

 and he asked me about the Mormons, some of whose books 

 had interested him. He thought two thirds of their re 

 ligion deception, but said that on the whole he preferred 

 a religion which professed to have dug its sacred books 

 out of the earth to one which pretended that they were 

 let down from heaven. On learning that I had visited 

 Salt Lake City two years before, he spoke of the good 

 reputation of the Mormons for chastity, and asked me to 

 explain the hold of their religion upon women. I an 

 swered that Mormonism could hardly be judged by its 

 results at present ; that, as a whole, the Mormons are, no 

 doubt, the most laborious and decent people in the State of 

 Utah; but that this is their heroic period, when outside 

 pressure keeps them firmly together and arouses their de 

 votion; that the true test will come later, when there is 

 less pressure and more knowledge, and when the young 

 men who are now arising begin to ask questions, quarrel 

 with each other, and split the whole body into sects and 

 parties. 



This led to questions in regard to American women 

 generally, and he wished to know something of their con 

 dition and prospects. I explained some features of wo 

 man s condition among us, showing its evolution, first 

 through the betterment of her legal status, and next 

 through provision for her advanced education; but told 

 him that so far as political rights are concerned, there had 



