216 OLEOMARGAEINE. 



we are not poverty stricken. We are not going to the poorhouse, as 

 the gentleman from Pennsylvania said yesterday. Oleomargarine is 

 not wiping us out, but, on the contrary, we are making better profits 

 every year, according to my statements, which can not be contradicted. 



I will say that as far as this year is concerned, this last May on 

 account of the high prices butter started in from 18i to 19 cents, these 

 fancy extra creameries. They were put in cold storage during the 

 months of June and July, and they have been sold out during this Sep- 

 tember and October and up to within two or three weeks as high as 24 

 cents, making a handsome profit of 3 to 4 cents a pound. To-day, 

 although the market is depressed, although the butter market is declin- 

 ing, as it usually does in January, you can sell your best fancy extra 

 creamery butter, if you have it I am speaking now of old June but- 

 ter at 23 cents. These gentlemen will probably say you can not do 

 that. The butter you can not sell at 23 cents is butter that has been 

 bought by speculators, not knowing what the}?' are buying, and put in 

 cold storage, and now when they turn it out they find it is poor and 

 old and has no flavor; but if the butter is made properly, although it 

 is an old butter, it still has an elegant flavor and taste and smell. 



Senator HEITFELD. Is that old butter all sent to Washington ? 



Mr. LESTRADE. I do not know much about that. 



Senator HEITFELD. I judge it is from my difficulty in getting good 

 butter. 



Mr. LESTRADE. I desire to ask the dairymen here whether they have 

 been approached in regard to a butter trust. I have, and the moment 

 that this bill is passed there will be the biggest butter trust that ever 

 was organized in these United States. If this bill does go through, I 

 shall be one of them to go in if I can. 



All I ask of you, gentlemen, is, if I have shown you in any way that 

 these facts are as I state, you will give them consideration; that you 

 will explain upon the floor of the Senate and let the people of the 

 United States know what we are doing in the dairy interests; that we 

 are not poverty stricken; and let the people be the judge whether the 

 dairy interest of the United States is in such a poor, forlorn condition. 



The committee (at 12 o'clock meridian) took a recess until 2.30 p. m. 



At the expiration of the recess the committee resumed its session. 



Present: Senator Hansbrough (acting chairman); also, Hon. William 

 W. Grout, a Representative from the State of Vermont; Hon. W. D. 

 Hoard, ex-governor of Wisconsin and president of the National Dairy 

 Union; C. Y. Knight, secretary of the National Dairy Union; Hon. 

 William M. Springer, of Springfield, 111., representing the National 

 Livestock Association; FranK W. Tillinghast, representing the Ver- 

 mont Manufacturing Company, of Providence, R. I.; Charles E. 

 Schell, representing the Ohio Butterine Company, of Cincinnati, Ohio; 

 W. E. Miller, representing the Armour Packing Company, of Kansas 

 City, Mo., and John F. Jelke, representing Braun & Fitts, Chicago, 

 111., and others. 



The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I understand, gentlemen, that an arrange- 

 ment was made for the hearing, this afternoon, of the gentlemen who 

 represent the dairy interests of Pennsylvania. Is that correct? 



SEVERAL GENTLEMEN. Correct. 



The ACTING CHAIRMAN. And how many of you are here ? 



Mr. KAUFFMAN. Mr. Chairman, I am the attorney for the Pure 

 Butter Protective Association of Pennsylvania, and we have four dif- 



