494 OLEOMARGARINE 



t 



Mr. KNIGHT. Yes; he did. 



The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Without himself proceeding to examine the 

 evidence, and to determine from the evidence itself whether it was 

 incriminating or not? 



Mr. KNIGHT. He did, Mr. Chairman. I will say that the collector 

 has taken an appeal in the case ; but it is not known whether the appeal 

 will stand or not under the circumstances. 



The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I should think it ought to stand. 



Mr. KNIGHT. The matter is now up in the courts. 



The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I suppose you understand that the rule in 

 such a case is that the judge himself must examine the evidence and 

 determine from such examination whether it is incriminating or not. 

 It is not left to the witness to determine that. 



Mr. KNIGHT. The witness, in this case, made this affidavit. 



The ACTING CHAIRMAN. But that is his own determination. 



Mr. KNIGHT. I understand that from that affidavit the judge decided 

 that there was no further cause of action. 



The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Any man living who is competent to draft 

 an answer in reponse to a writ of attachment for contempt may excul- 

 pate himself if the judge can not go any further and examine the evi- 

 dence said to be incriminating. 



Senator MONEY. That was a Federal judge, was it? 



Mr. KNIGHT. That was a Federal judge. 



The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Such a decision makes the witness instead 

 of the court the judge of the matter. 



Mr. KNIGHT. That is true. This matter was before the Hon. Chris- 

 tian C. Kohlsatt, judge of the United States court of America for the 

 northern district of Illinois. That is my understanding of the case, at 

 least that the judge did not examine the evidence at all. 



The ACTING CHAIRMAN. That is the first exception to the rule of 

 which I have ever known. 



Mr. KNIGHT. Well, you wanted to know something about the manu- 

 facturers, Senator. That is one case. 



Senator MONEY. Now, you have undertaken to give circumstances to 

 prove a case against two manufacturers. Do you consider that that is 

 the rule or the exception 1 



Mr. KNIGHT. These two manufacturers, Senator, make 25 per cent of 

 all the oleomargarine produced in the United States. 



Senator MONEY. They do? 



Mr. KNIGHT. They do; yes, sir. I know that to be a fact, as I have 

 seen the records of the Department, which show the amount manu- 

 factured by those two concerns. 



Mr. MILLER. What is your experience with the packers who manu- 

 facture butterine f 



Mr. KNIGHT. My experience with your concern, Mr. Miller, is that if 

 they were all like you we would never be here. Unfortunately, they 

 are not. 



Mr. MILLER. Thank you. 



Mr. JELKE. If the committee will permit, I would like at this point 

 to read a telegram from Collector Coyne, received last night. State- 

 ments have been made here before this committee as if it were a court 

 of trial. There are always two sides to a question. I do not care to go 

 into a discussion of detail, but it is sufficient to say that the Internal 

 Eevenue Department ought to be called on to substantiate everything 

 which has been offered before this committee. I would suggest, there- 

 fore, that the Internal Kevenue Department be asked to come here and 

 present their side of this question. 



