618 OLEOMARGARINE. 



Q. He was not afraid ? A. No ; he was not afraid. He did not care. But he would 

 not come into my store and call for oleomargarine, in front of a crowd, but he will 

 go outside and say, "I buy oleomargarine from this man." He buys it for 15 cents. 



Q. Do you think a man is entitled to know just what he is getting? A. Certainly 

 he is. 



Q. In your business you offer him every opportunity to know? A. I do so much 

 business I don't have to lie to him. They buy it anyway. I don't have to lie to him. 

 I am doing the real, genuine thing, in Chicago, and I don't have to lie for it. And I 

 am making the money. I don't have to lie to them. If they don't like it, let them 

 go somewhere else, and get beat, and then they will come back to me later. 



Q. You have no knowledge of any practice or custom in your establishment of 

 folding the corner of the paper, such as we have seen? A. Not in any way, shape, 

 form, or manner. 



Q. No such idea as that is given out to your employees? A. We had some trouble 

 about folding the paper. I will show you how it can be folded in in many ways. 

 We will suppose the stamp is on this corner [illustrating], and the stamp comes 

 from this end, as you see, down to this, comes right around the outside. You can 

 take that and fold it over like that [illustrating] on the outside, and still it is on 

 the outside. I don't do it, but they done it, and they claim it is folded on the inside. 

 Do you see it is right here across this top? Th- en - they take it and fold it like that 

 [indicating] and fold it in again, and you see it is on the inside. 



Q. That is done with a stamp? A. Yes. 



Q. And you put your rubber stamp on the pad, and then put it on the paper? A. 

 Yes, sir. 



Q. It would be a simple matter, when the package is wrapped up, to put that 

 stamp on the outside, would it not? A. Yes, sir. Then they take it and turn the 

 paper over, and put the word " oleo" on the other side, and put it on the inside. 



Q. So far as you are concerned, that would be the simplest possible way? A. 

 Yes; and many times, just as soon as he makes the discovery that this is oleo, on 

 the outside, he says, " Put another wrapper on it to hide it." They don't want to be 

 walking along the street showing people that they are buying oleomargarine, but 

 still they want it. When this new law came up, about a year ago, I went to sell 

 pure butter, and it came back just as fast as I sold it. 



Q. It did not have keeping qualities? A. No, sir; it did not have keeping quali- 

 ties, and I never saw any that ever did have. 



By the CHAIRMAN : 



This resolves itself into a question of veracity between you and this gentleman 

 [indicating Mr. Knight]. In other words, he says he bought these two packages 

 from your store. A. Yes, sir. 



Q. I have opened both packages in the presence of the committee, and they were 

 both folded. A. Yes, sir. 



Q. Each folded in the same way. Now, what is your explanation ; that it has 

 been changed after it left your store? A. It must have been, without this man that 

 I have there has a new way of wrapping them up, and contrary to my advisement. 

 Of course, a man can go on, and pick for a flaw, such as he has done, and make 

 trouble, and string it along, if he wishes. And, as I say, a man can wrap it up a 

 dozen different ways, and bring it up here and swear that he got it that identical 

 way. I would not say that he did it, but I have my opinion. He is getting pay for 

 this, you know, and I am not. 



By Senator HARRIS: 



Q. There is one question I want to ask you further. The pure butter which you 

 sell is wholly or partly colored, or how is that? A. Some of it is as yellow as gold. 



Q. What proportion of it is artificially colored? A. I could not just state; there 

 is a good deal of it, because in January butter is white as snow, almost, very nearly, 

 and we get it yellow in the winter time. 



Q. If genuine butter were not artificially colored, would it not be easier to distin- 

 guish it from oleomargarine? A. Yes, sir; because all oleomargarine is colored. 



Q. That is, uniformly colored? A. Yes, sir; uniformly colored, just as you see 

 there [referring to samples of oleomargarine on the table], 



Q. And in the actual process of producing the genuine butter, the color varies 

 with the season? A. In January it would be almost white. 



Q. In June it would all be about the same color? A. No; in June you get the 

 green grass. 



Q. Then, I say, it would be the color of oleomargarine. A. Yes, sir; and, as I 

 understand, the two articles are colored by the same thing. 



Q. There is a very decided contest, practically, between the creamery men and 

 the manufacturers of oleomargarine, as to who shall have the exclusive privileges of 

 coloring their product? A. Yes, sir; I believe there is. These people [referring to 

 the interests represented by Mr. Knight] want the oleomargarine men to quit color- 



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